Balanced Bites Podcast Episode #124: #coffeewithben, fat fears, and “it’s all about the vegetables, baby.”

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Topics:The Balanced Bites Podcast | Podcast Episode #124: #coffeewithBen, fat fears & It’s all about the vegetables, baby
1.  #coffeewithBen [3:07]
2.  Balanced Bites online workshop news [4:22]
3.  Liz gets to hold her baby finally! [15:30]
4. Eat the Yolks Egg-cerpt [20:44]
5.  How not to fear fat, and introducing it to the body when it’s been restricted [23:04]
6.  It’s all about the vegetables, baby [31:05]
7.  Raw vs. cooking [43:24]
8.  Eating to prepare for surgery [48:21]
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Eat The Yolks
Podcast Episode #106: Special Guest Katy Bowman
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Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone! Liz here. Welcome to episode 124 of the Balanced Bites podcast! As usual, I’m with Diane, but I’m actually WITH Diane right now.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: Almost literally, although, we’ll let you know why we have her quarantined in a minute or two. But first, let’s have a little shout out to our sponsors. First, Paleo Treats. We love Paleo Treats. If you are looking for individually packaged paleo goodies, so you can enjoy one and not eat the entire tray of brownies {laughs} you just baked, grain free brownies you just baked, check out Paleo Treats. They’ve got some really awesome products, really cool people. Get 15% off when you enter the code BALANCEDBITES at checkout. Pete’s Paleo, bringing fine dining to your cave. Pete’s Paleo makes eating real food really easy. Sounds cheesy, but it’s true. They take the work out of meal planning and prep. It’s a really good idea for those nights when you get home from the gym, or whatever, and it’s too late to cook and you want to have dinner on the table really fast. Everything is already cooked, you basically just have to heat it up. So, what we’ve really liked about that at our house is that sometimes we really do run out of food, and it’s a good week before we’re going to get to the grocery store, and that is when we call upon our frozen Pete’s Paleo meals. Pete’s Paleo is offering our listeners a free pound of bacon. The bacon is extraordinary. It’s what bacon is supposed to be. I don’t think I’d ever actually tasted real bacon before I tasted Pete’s Paleo bacon. They are offering a free pound with the purchase of any meal plan. Enter the code BALANCEDBITESROCKS at checkout. And finally, Chameleon Cold-Brew, our favorite smooth, organic, fair trade caffeinated beverage. Find out where you can buy locally by looking at their website at, or you can get a really good discount off your online order when you enter the code, what is it, BALANCEDBITES at checkout.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yes.
1. #coffeewithBen [3:07]
Liz Wolfe: So did you see that today was my first time ever doing the coffee with Ben hashtag on Instagram?
Diane Sanfilippo: Are you asking me if I saw it?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Or are you asking our listeners?
Liz Wolfe: Well, of course you saw it. Well, I guess I’m asking the listeners too, but I was always like. Well, I didn’t know what it was, this whole coffee with Ben thing, so I texted you, sent you a texted, is that part of the vernacular now? I guess it is. I texteded you about what’s this coffee with Ben thing, Ben being the husband of Jenny, who is the Urban Poser, and there’s this hashtag, and I guess people are having virtual coffee with Ben, and I was wondering if I was cool enough to use the hashtag, and I just went for it today. I just went for coffee with Ben. And someone suggested, like, you’ve got to have… you take a picture of your coffee, kind of birds eye view, and you get your feet in the picture, just check out the hashtag.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think that’s part of what’s supposed to be there.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: But, my first couple didn’t have any feet. I still hashtagged it.
Liz Wolfe: Well, they didn’t count. But, someone suggested that we should do {Jersey accented} coffee socks, instead of coffee talk, #coffeewithben #coffeesocks. Everybody can kind of show off the socks that they are wearing that day.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well, I think we need to all start hashtagging eggs with Liz.
2. Balanced Bites online workshop news [4:22]
Liz Wolfe: Well, as long as we’re hashtagging Eat the Yolks as well. We just have way too much fun over here. So, everyone, I’m visiting Diane right now, and I guess this is, we can start in on a couple of updates right now, but the whole situation for the last week, is I flew into town, to New Jersey, to do the Balanced Bites workshop in Philly. I’m trying to see who suggested the coffee socks. LIfeLoveandPaleo on Instagram suggested #coffeesocks. I love it.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Alright, so anyway. I flew into New Jersey to do the Balanced Bites workshop, the final one in Philadelphia last weekend, and so I’m actually staying at Diane’s house, and we doubled up on work, because we have been working on some filming for the upcoming Balanced Bites online nutrition workshop!
Diane Sanfilippo: Whoop, whoop!
Liz Wolfe: Whoop, whoop! So, do you want to say a few words about that, Diane?
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, well first I’m going to say a few words about why we are together in the same house but not in the same room, and it’s because I came down with a nasty sinus infection this weekend, which I don’t remember the last time that’s happened to me. It really kind of knocked me down about halfway through our day of teaching in Philly, I was really feeling it, but kind of kept the energy going and was fine until we got back to the hotel and I kind of crashed out that night, but anyway. So I was really a little bit down for the count like Sunday and Monday, and had to rally because we were going to be recording a whole bunch of videos for the seminars, or the online workshop I should say, all day yesterday, which was Tuesday. So, anyway, I now have a bit of a cough, and I’m kind of…you know, I think it’s going to be funny because the whole video series of the intros for the online workshop my voice is basically hoarse. So {laughs} people are going to kind of roll in and start listening and participating in the, like, workshop modules and my voice will be normal, but {laughs} through all of the videos I’m kind of a little raspy.
Liz Wolfe: I suggested that we should somehow find a way to get you sick again when we do the actual voice recording for the modules, because then we could have some continuity. People like continuity.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh well. Well, I don’t like straining to speak, which I’m kind of doing now, so, sorry guys. My deep interesting raspy voice will be gone.
Liz Wolfe: I will say though, what usually, when people have sinus infections, you know “Other people”.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: That stuff can last a really long time. You’ve basically nipped it in the bud in about 36 hours.
Diane Sanfilippo: Two days. Yeah, I mean, I pretty much used a bazillion natural remedies. Not a bunch of this stuff I talked about in a video I did on cold care, but maybe I’ll post another one when this sinus infection is gone completely and I feel like I can make a video, well, I guess we did that all day yesterday anyway. But, yeah. I probably was using like 6 different natural remedies to kind of help myself. So, I’ll share that with folks. Maybe it will be on another podcast or maybe it will be a video. So anyway, the only update I really have is that I’m teaching a 2-hour, like a mini-Paleo workshop in Stanford, Connecticut. It’s 1-3 p.m. at Crossfit Stanford. So, if you’re in that area, if you came to the book signing up there at R. J. Julia, I think the book store is about an hour from where there event will be. They will be at the event helping to sell some books, which will be great. I love supporting the independent bookshops, but if you want to come learn some more or if you weren’t there and you want to come, or if you’re just anywhere kind of around that area, I know folks who are in like the New York/New Jersey area if you have a car near New York or around northern New Jersey, it’s not that far. It’s only an hour from me, and I’m in the Caldwell area, so, you know, definitely come check it out if you want to. I think the tickets, I think I’ve got them only at around $35, so if you wanted to come to an event, that’s pretty affordable. You can check that out. Do you want to talk a little bit more about our online workshop?
Liz Wolfe: I do. So it’s going to be…if anybody has been to the Balanced Bites workshop in person, that’s an 8-hour day packed with a ton of information, and we talk about not just nutrition, but we talk about systemic health, so we talk about inflammation, how inflammation and food kind of interact to keep you healthier, or not healthy. We talk about digestion, we talk about hormones, we talk about pretty much anything and everything that you can imagine that would affect overall health. So, sleep, sun exposure, lifestyle management, things like that. And we also do, of course, all kinds of breakout questions as far as goals and where to find good food, and it’s really comprehensive and funny enough, even with 8 hours, we never seem to be able to cover everything that we want to cover. So, this online workshop is going to… it’s basically limitless what we can do with it, you know. It will go, it will be extremely comprehensive and basically without time constraints. So, what needs to be said is going to be said and that’s how long and extended it’s going to be. So, you can expect something really comprehensive, and we’re also going to do some… you know, since we’ll be missing the in-person element, thanks to my goats {laughs} goats, pigs, and chickens, and living an hour and a half from an airport, we will definitely be adding some kind of personal element to it. Some kind of online or Skype-based Q&A that folks can tune into a conference call and get their questions answered and talk to us a little bit. I think that will be really fun. What folks will want to do is go to, or pretty soon here it will be up on my website, as well. Sign up to be notified for when the online workshop is completed.
Diane Sanfilippo: Right.
Liz Wolfe: And ready to go because we will probably offer some kind of introductory, you know, special just for the folks who have been hanging on and waiting to find out when it comes out.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, for sure. I think by the time this podcast airs, we will have a page on the Balanced Bites website. So it will be
Liz Wolfe: Yes.
Diane Sanfilippo: So folks can check that out and sign up to get the notifications. So, yeah, I’m really excited. Ditto on everything you said. I think, you know, part of my stress and frustration about only being able to teach in certain cities has always been that there’s, you know, there’s a time limit, as you said, on the day, and we’ve got so much we want to share with people, but this is going to be a really amazing way for us to add tons of content. You know, the cool thing that, you know, Liz you and I have already been talking about, is like, alright we’re going to do our basic curriculum, but we can update and expand it, you know, over the years or whenever we have additional information, and we’ll be able to offer that to anyone who had already been participating.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: So, I’m just really excited about that. I’m excited to allow people to basically attend, you know, attend a virtual workshop, and you know, have access to the information anytime, but also be able to interact with us in sort of that live fashion, you know, at some certain punctuated times that we’ll be able to do that. I think when we originally started the podcast, we loaded it into Blog Talk radio because I had the intention of allowing for a live segment. But I think that just our schedules made it such that it was too hard to figure out, you know, a guaranteed time we’d be able to record every week that we could allow people to predictably be listening and call in with questions, so you know, I love the Q&A portion of pretty much anything we do, whether that’s a full day seminar or a book signing event or just, you know, a short seminar or something like that. I think that’s kind of the most fun. It’s always the most fun, I think, for the people attending, too, so we’ll be able to add that interactive element. So anyone who’s kind of, you know, worried that, well, I didn’t get to a live seminar and I don’t want to just learn, you know, in a bubble, we will have that element so that everyone can kind of connect, so I think that’s going to be really cool and very exciting, and yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m just super excited to put this information together with so many more resources than we’ve ever been able to give in person. Like, sitting back and taking inventory of what we’ve done over the years, and you know, it’s been a lot of years of teaching these seminars. You know, now we can do transcripts of everything that we’re sharing, you know, worksheets and videos and audio and all kinds of material, so it’s like, whichever way you learn best, you can access the information. So I’m just really excited about that.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. It’s going to be awesome. And, as usual, this is not us pitching a branded diet to anybody.
Diane Sanfilippo: Right.
Liz Wolfe: Pitching a list of rules or follow our program, or whatever. This is what you need to know about food, about your body, about how they work together, and about all these different inputs that we talk about that impact our health.
Diane Sanfilippo: Right.
Liz Wolfe: This is about knowledge and taking control for yourself. Which is what I’m excited.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think one of the things that people end up, you know, coming to us as a resource, right? Like, people trust our judgment, we’ve studies a lot, we’ve learned a lot, and I think, you know, one of the things that I always want to happen is that over time and over the years, maybe not to the same degree, like, every single person who attends a seminar for example, but the student becomes the teacher, in a sense.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And, like I’m kind of hoping that as people attend our seminars, which they’ve done live in person, and then as they come to kind of the online workshop, which I just think it’s a much.. it’s almost a richer experience, because you get so many other resources that you learn the whys behind, like, all of the decisions that we might make for ourselves so that you can then make the right decision for yourself, because even what we do for ourselves, perhaps 90% of your life seems aligned with what we’re doing or our goals, but everyone’s got something different going on, and we want you guys to have the most sort of broad perspective and deepest, I guess, or most complete depth of knowledge that you can have to then make the right decision for you, because that’s the really important part. It’s less important for us to create rules that you just follow, and it’s more important that we teach you how to make those decisions for yourself with as much information as possible to base those decisions on.
Liz Wolfe: Amen.
Diane Sanfilippo: Amen. I would high-five you.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m virtually high-fiving you from upstairs.
Liz Wolfe: High five in the air!
Diane Sanfilippo: Um, yeah. High fives.
3. Liz gets to hold her baby finally! [15:30]
Liz Wolfe: High fives. So, my update. Are you ready?
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m ready.
Liz Wolfe: You already know this. {singsong} I got the first copy of my book! So all of this time, when I’ve been doing the Egg-cerpts and all that good stuff on the podcast, reading from the book, I was actually reading just from the PDF that I got to approve from the publisher before it went to print. But the printer actually rush-shipped like the first couple of copies to Crossfit Center City, where our workshop was, and I got to open a box with 3 copies of Eat the Yolks in it at the workshop, and it was in front of a crowd of like, I said at first like 70 people, but there were way more than that.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah it was.
Liz Wolfe: And they all cheered for me, and it was such a special moment.
Diane Sanfilippo: We should link to the video.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, we need to link to that video. I need to get a better version up on my blog, because that one was a little bit grainy. But, so I got to open my book and see it for the first time, and damn if it’s not a pretty book and dense with information. I’m actually really, really proud of myself. I was kind of looking at it as if I didn’t even write it. It’s funny, it’s like, you know, it’s like you birth a baby and that baby has its own independent life, and you just have to say, like, {laughs} I don’t know where you came from but I’m proud that I had something to do with it. But, I’m really proud of the book, and it looks awesome, and folks got to touch it and see it and that was cool. But someone did suggest to me in one of my pleas on the podcast recently, just for any kind of wisdom or suggestions on helping to get the word out about the book, someone did write in and say, you know, it might help if you had kind of almost an elevator pitch. You know? Not a sales pitch, but I can see how people might be a little bit confused that the book is called Eat the Yolks and they think that it’s just about eggs. It’s not. Eat the Yolks is for impact, hopefully folks will pick the book up and read the back and see that it’s not just about eating eggs. But, so I thought I would kind of read my pitch about it so folks could really understand what it’s about, and if you want to pluck any of this stuff from the transcript in telling other people about the book, please feel free. So, this is what I would say is kind of the elevator pitch for it. “My book, Eat the Yolks, is here! {laughs} If you’ve ever wondered if the food we’ve been told to eat is actually healthy, this book gives you answers. Eat the Yolks is about the lies we’ve been told, why the heck we believe them, and the real truth about real food. Sound boring? Don’t worry. As usual, I’ve added lots of classic movie references, sarcasm, and tongue-in-cheekery, see the chapter on Kellogg’s Flaccid Flakes, because the truth is crucial, but laughing while you learn, that’s a must.” That’s pretty much what I have to say. Really, the subject material is divided up very simply, but we talk about saturated fat and cholesterol myths, {laughs} the idea that we should replace real butter with margarine, total myth. The myth that all animal products are bad for the heart, kidneys, bones, and gut. The myth that whole grains are the healthiest carbs or that we need them for fiber, and myths about calories, as well. So, I really approach almost all of the myths; I mean, I go into myths about the sun, salt, omega-3s, nutrients, dairy. It’s a pretty comprehensive book. It’s almost addressing the volume of questions that I’ve gotten over the last 2 years.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Even, you know, in workshops, and just from folks that…it’s so fun, because when people are asking me questions about nutrition, just, you know, people that may not necessarily have a whole lot of knowledge about ancestral nutrition, they almost always, without fail, will ask me a question that I’ve addressed in the book. And it’s so much fun. It’s so much fun to be like, well actually I got that in the book, too!
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Little pat myself on the back, there, because I think I’ve headed off some questions as well as addressed some pretty common questions, as well in the book. So, that’s my elevator pitch.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think that’s awesome. You know, I think, I really don’t think there’s any other book that’s done it in that way. You know, a lot of us have kind of done an FAQ section, or people have done their take on paleo, but I think this is one of those books that will really help a lot of people who are just still kind of struggling with those myths.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And I think that is what has revealed itself in the last couple of years of teaching seminars is that, you know, we get ourselves and everyone who’s listened to this podcast, you are probably in a little bit of a bubble, too, where you sometimes forget just how many people out there still believe all these myths.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Like, we are a very small minority of people, and it’s really important that we have the right information to help people with, you know, that we’re not just saying, like, oh, well, you know, that’s silly, you shouldn’t believe it. They want to know, you know, a little bit more about why that’s not true.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: So I think this will really help people be armed with that information and have a book that’s like fun to read that they can share. It’s not like, you know, just uber clinical and boring.
Liz Wolfe: Right.
Diane Sanfilippo: You know, a rehash of what else is out there.
Liz Wolfe: Exactly. And with that…
Diane Sanfilippo: Egg-actly!
4. Eat the Yolks Egg-cerpt [20:44]
Liz Wolfe: Shall I … egg-actly! Shall I read an egg-cerpt?
Diane Sanfilippo: Do it.
Liz Wolfe: From my book?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Alright. I will do that. Now I hope, and I’m actually not really keeping track of which egg-cerpts I’m doing, I just opened randomly to a page. I may have read this before, but hopefully not. But I’m actually reading from the physical book right now, which is just beyond exciting. So. Ok. “The diet industry wants us to think about counting calories rather than establishing a baseline of health by nourishing our bodies. They act as if our problems are the result of too many calories, when most of us are actually suffering from a nourishment deficiency. A box of industrial crap that promises a low-calorie path to health or weight loss, and most diet systems and pre-packaged meals fill that bill, provides nothing but a carnival show. All smoke and mirrors. This is the business of sales, not the business of health, and it leaves us the same or worse off than it found us. This whole circus does nothing to solve all the issues that we tend to forget can stem directly from nutrient deficiency. Fatigue, depression, poor digestion and weight gain, among others. Funny thought from the girl who used to live on 100-calorie packs. Ever wonder why they don’t call it 100-nutrient pack? The problem is, we don’t think about food in terms of nourishment. We think of food as a calorie-laden nemesis, and we think of appetite as something we must control with the only tool we have; willpower. Well, I no longer believe in willpower. I believe in a body that is nourished enough to know what it needs and when. It’s possible, but the diet and processed food industries would rather you didn’t know that.” And scene.
Diane Sanfilippo: Cut. Print. That’s a wrap.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, exactly. People are liking the egg-cerpts. It’s very flattering. I like to hear back from folks. I had a message from someone the other day that said, “you’re my first paleo book. I really liked the readings that you’ve done on the podcast.” And that meant a lot to me, so thank you for that support.
Diane Sanfilippo: Awww. Awesome.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Alright. Let’s move on to the questions.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think we should start with what we have listed as the second question here.
Liz Wolfe: Ok.
Diane Sanfilippo: Because it’s really just like trails right from what we were just talking about with myths and things, about the fat.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, very good.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think you should read that one.
5. How not to fear fat, and introducing it to the body when it’s been restricted [23:04]
Liz Wolfe: Cool. Alright. How not to fear the fat. This is from Debbie. “Hi ladies! I first want to say that I love your podcast. As informative as it is, I must admit the first 15 minutes of random banter is my favorite.” Aww, it’s my favorite, too, Debbie. “anyone who says otherwise has…” {laughs} This is where Debbie throws it down, I guess. “Anyone who says otherwise has no sense of humor and shouldn’t be listening.” {laughs} “Kidding, of course, but I do love the laidback approach you two have with the podcast. One of the reasons your podcast is my favorite over other paleo podcasts is your ability to recognize that not everyone is the same. We have different tolerances and needs, and if we chose to eat something, even if others deem it “not paleo but it works for you”, then that’s ok and actually how you should be eating and living. My question for you is about fat. I know you both had your struggles in the past with diet, exercise, and nutrition, and I’m no different and I’ve had my own struggles. I’m happy to report that I’m on a healthy eating path, and have recognized that regardless of what I eat, I need to focus on the nutrition of the food, not the numbers or stigma that comes with it. One thing I find that I do still struggle with is fats. I know that healthy fats are good for us, that we need them, and that they are one thing that there is so much stigma around, but I still have that background thought that fat will make us fat. I know, it’s silly. But I guess my main concern and question is, if I’m coming from a past of a low-fat diet, how should I start to incorporate more fats into my diet. If I dive right in, and add double or maybe triple the amount of fat I was eating in the past, how will that affect my body. Rapid weight gain? Nutrition imbalances? I just worry that if I go from 0-60 if that’s a good idea, or if I should start slowly incorporating more fats into my diet. Do you have any advice on how to get over this fear of fat, and any suggestions to how I should and how fast I should make these changes. Thank you, and a big congrats to both of you on your success, etc.” Alright, I know you said I was cutting out a little bit, but I think my recording is working fine here.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, we’ll see what happens. We can always try and have the question added back in.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Um, I’m just going to say a couple of quick things, and then I know you probably have more ideas.
Liz Wolfe: Oh, let me throw in real quick that she is a 30–year-old female who, until recently, ate a 90% low-fat vegetarian diet. I think that will be an important point as we move forward.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. Really important. So, one of the things that I want people to keep in mind, and this is something that I loved about your interview with Katy Bowman from many episodes ago, but, you know, changing what you’re doing from 0-60 is not always a good idea, so that whole, like, today I eat this tomorrow I eat this and those two things look really, really different, you know for some people it works just fine. For others, it can be kind of a shock to the system, and, you know, it’s one of those reasons why, with The 21-Day Sugar Detox, I kind of have those preparatory 3-7 days where you are at least making some shifts, and also why there are different levels to the program, because not everybody needs to do like the most intense level from the get-go. And so, when it comes to adding more fat to your diet, I think the best way to start is to not think of it as adding fats, but to first just stop avoiding them. And so that will naturally just put a little bit more back into your diet. You don’t always need to think, like, “oh I have to add fat to this” to everything. What we need to think about is just not avoiding them where they naturally occur and not being scared of them where they naturally occurred. So, obviously things like egg yolks and not throwing away the egg yolks in favor of the whites, and, you know if the chicken has skin on it, like, not to be scared of that. If your ground beef, especially when it’s grass-fed ground beef, has fat, you know, not to be freaked out about that. Those are the kinds of things I would say initially to be looking at. And I wouldn’t necessarily dump tons of extra coconut oil and ghee and bacon fat and all that kind of fat on top of your meals, because if your body needs to adapt to metabolizing that extra fat and get your gallbladder’s secretion of bile to be kind of on par with your intake of the fatty foods, and I’m not talking uber fatty, I’m just saying more than you’ve been eating. So, you know, if you’re trying to get your body to adapt to it, you don’t have to just go from like, 20 grams of fat per day to 100 grams the next day. So, that’s kind of my first note there. So, Liz do you want to talk a little bit more about some of her questions?
Liz Wolfe: I think that’s everything you said I agree with. She also says later, I cut down the question a little bit just because we’re in a little bit of a time crunch today, but later she does say, “in terms of me adding more healthy fat to my diet, I’ve started using more coconut oil and grass fed butter in my cooking, adding more avocados to meals, and using almond butter or tahini with my breakfast.” I don’t know if she’s, you know, if these to her might be tiny changes. She might just be using a little bit of coconut oil and a little grass-fed butter, like maybe where she used to steam broccoli, she’s adding a little pat of butter at the end. I don’t know. But, I mean, these are kind of the little steps where, you know, you’re gradually moving yourself towards whatever you it is you think is right for you. So, one thing I did want to say though, is first of all echoing what Diane said about it is a very real potential shock to your system that is not just emotional or mental. In that podcast with Katy Bowman, which was a fantastic podcast, I loved it, she blew my mind, so go back and listen to that if you can, Katy does talk about how your cells actually react to different, I guess you could call them selective pressures. So we’re actually taking about changing inputs at the cellular level. And there is a huge argument, I think, for taking it slow. At a kind of broader level, we talk about this in the workshops a lot, when you’re quickly changing your diet from one thing to another, especially in this case, you know, until recently ate a 90% low-fat, vegetarian diet, when we talk about digestion in the seminars and workshops and whatnot, we talk about how if you’re not using certain digestive capacities, you can lose them for a period of time. Folks that eat a low-fat diet for long periods of time will really lose a lot of bile deployment capacity. They won’t actually be either producing or deploying enough bile to emulsify the fats that they start to eat later on. So, these gradual steps are a good idea, especially if you anticipate making demands of different digestive faculties that perhaps you weren’t doing before. So, you know, you add an extra pat of butter to your broccoli, see how you react to that. Add a little bit of, you know, well-cooked meat that is chewed really well where you would have had, you know, lentils or beans, something like that. See how you digest it, see how you are doing. I think that’s a really, really good point. And as far as not fearing fat, I mean, we talk about this a ton in our workshops, and I talk about it a ton in Eat the Yolks, so Debbie, if you’re up for spending another $20 for this information, please do get the book because it’s more than I could ever say in the podcast, but I go through most of the, you know, ridiculous industrial influences that basically pushed us from eating a diet of naturally occurring nutrient dense fats to one of nutrient-devoid highly processed fats and how that really screwed with our health as a whole. So, if you need all of that background, if you don’t want to just know the physiology or the biology of it, you actually want to know how the heck we got here, so you can be sure that you feel comfortable not believing those things anymore, I mean, get the book. I write a huge chapter on it, and I think it would really help getting over the fear of fat. I think that’s all I wanted to say. Do you have anything else to add to this one, Diane?
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t think so. I think you pretty much covered it.
6. It’s all about the vegetables, baby [31:05]
Liz Wolfe: Alright. Let’s do all about the vegetables. It’s all about the vegetables, baby. Alright, Heather asks: “Hi Diane and Liz! Love your podcast. It’s so educational and entertaining. I was wondering if you ladies could talk about the optimal level of non-starchy vegetable consumption. Should one-half or three-fourths of my plate be veggies? Or maybe just a one cup serving each meal? Can you eat too many veggies? Is a ketogenic diet depleting to the body because of the lower level of vegetable phytonutrients. Basically, how important are non-starchy veggies?” I think this is a really interesting question, because there was a time when I was like, psh, vegetables! Like.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think we were both that way.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think in some ways, we still are when it comes down to, like, hey I just need to eat a really satiating meal, and I don’t have a ton of time, and let’s just get, sort of the down and dirty of what’s going to fill me up and keep me satisfied. Right? Like, I think we still kind of both opt for the fat and protein.
Liz Wolfe: Nutrient… I mean, I think we see people being so concerned about fat and missing the fat soluble nutrients that are there, to a point it’s like, we know everybody is going to eat some veggies, but if you’re not eating fat
Diane Sanfilippo: Right.
Liz Wolfe: You’re probably missing out on some of the nutrient content in the veggies, because you do need fat soluble vitamins to absorb the water soluble stuff in vegetables. So it was one of those things, those issues of priority, and yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, but anyway. Go ahead. I know you wanted to say more.
Liz Wolfe: Oh, no. I was just interrupting you for the sake of interrupting you. You know how I like to do that.
Diane Sanfilippo: No, I think you were going to say, you know, we both kind of used to be, not anti-veggie, but just anti-freaking out about telling people to eat tons of veggies, because I feel like our take has always been to continue to encourage the stuff that people don’t think is health or aren’t sure is healthy.
Liz Wolfe: Right.
Diane Sanfilippo: Just like that previous question. So, we’re kind of like, yeah, yeah, everybody has heard. Enough about eating more vegetables. At least, everybody who’s come to us. You know?
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s like, people get it, but, you know, to really kind of home in on this question, hone in. Home in?
Liz Wolfe: I don’t know. We had that question the other day. I always question myself on that.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think it could be either.
Liz Wolfe: I think it’s hone your skills, with an “n”, and home, like a homing beacon. Like zero in.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, like home in on… yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, so that would be the, like, location logistics. Anyway, I think we should get down to the point of her question here, was really just about the consumption. And, you know, should it be a half a cup or a third cup on my plate. I think it depends on what kind of vegetables they. I think if it’s lettuce, like half a cup of lettuce is pretty much useless.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: Lettuces do have some nutrients. I think all veggies have some kind of different nutrients, like, she’s mentioning phytonutrients. They all have different types of nutrients that are fantastic. I think that we should as many of them as we can as is interesting to us and as we can kind of manage. One to two cups at a meal, depending on what kind of veggies they are, or even 3. If I eat a salad, it’s not a little bowl that I would normally put soup in. You know? It’s going to be a pretty gigantic bowl. Like, I’m eating the big salad if I’m eating a salad {laughs}. So, I think that’s kind of the difference. If you are eating starchy, maybe a little bit more nutrient dense veggies, like beets or tomatoes or really richly colored stuff, you can kind of get away with a smaller serving. Half a cup, maybe a cup. In terms of can you eat too many? Yeah, you can eat too many or too much of anything. You’ll probably be in the bathroom a little too much {laughs} if you eat too many veggies and you’re getting too much fiber from them. But, I think when it comes to a ketogenic diet, so she’s kind of talking about a low-carb approach where maybe you aren’t eating as many veggies, you can definitely get lower levels of different veggie phytonutrients because you aren’t eating all of those different colors. I do recommend that people try and vary what they are eating if they are eating low carb. I always recommend that folks add lots of spices and herbs. You know, one of the times in my life where I really got into things like cilantro and chives and all of these different green herbs was when I was eating a cyclic ketogenic diet, so I was eating really low carb, I wanted to add flavor and color without adding tons of carbs, so I added lots and lots of herbs. Fresh herbs. But you can get lots of phytonutrients also from your spices and things like that, so. Just kind of keep that in mind. So, you know, they are pretty important. We are getting lots of things from them. We are getting whole food nutrients in synergistic quantities. It is important to eat them with fat so that we’re able to digest and absorb the fat soluble vitamins, but that’s kind of my take. Do you have any other thoughts there, Liz?
Liz Wolfe: I think there’s some, or there was some interesting debate in the low-carb world about the gut microbiome changing in response to a low-carb diet and whether that was, you know, a good thing, kind of symbolic of the body adjusting to something that it needed to adjust to or if it was actually a bad change in the gut flora, so I think that is still kind of up for debate. I’m not sure. But I’m just not that into the absolute low, low carb ketogenic deal unless it’s therapeutic. I think there are a few people that it’s appropriate for, but just living on butter, eggs and cream, as much as I would like to do that, may be not really the way to go. And I think a lot of people, when they are doing a ketogenic plan, they are probably eating more protein than is actually, you know…
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Use on a therapeutic type ketogenic diet. So, sometimes I get a little confused as to what folks are referring to in that type of situation. I mean, we have..
Diane Sanfilippo: They make low carb without being ketogenic.
Liz Wolfe: Right.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s a very, it’s a high satiety way of eating, when you eat high-protein, high-fat, so even if you’re not actually in ketosis, you may, basically they call it spontaneous calorie reduction because you are so satiated on what you’re eating.
Liz Wolfe: Kind of a tangent.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: But, as far as, when we had Sara Gottfried, Dr. Hot, Dr. Sara Gottfried,
Diane Sanfilippo: Dr. Hottfried.
Liz Wolfe: of, what, The Hormone Cure?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: On the show, she talked about fiber, and I think was at a point at which we kind of diverged from her on dietary recommendations, but it really did pique my interest, because I think that non-starchy veggies, the fiber from non-starchy veggies does have some utility in, mmm, we’ll just generalize it as detoxification in the body, so I think it’s cool that keep some non-starchy veggies in there, you know, a little or a lot, whatever suits you and whatever enables you to poop comfortably, not that you need non-starchy veggies to poop, but too much non-starchy vegetables they can actually make pooping a little bit uncomfortable, so I think that’s a pretty good indicator of if you are getting enough. I also think a variety is really important. I think a lot of folks, when they get into the paleo thing or the real food movement, they are eating “a ton” of cauliflower rice, cabbage rolls, on top of the other vegetables they knew they should be eating before like broccoli, so basically they are going crucifer crazy, and for some people, that can be mildly uncomfortable up to truly problematic just based on the goitrogen content of those vegetables, which can mess with your thyroid. So, the truth is, non-starchy veggies from anything in the plant kingdom, it’s not completely benign. It’s not like this only, like these non-starchy veggies are nutrition and that’s it. Just like, you know, just like beans, just like grains, any plant does have the capacity to bite back, and you really do have to just seek what your individual tolerance is for what you’re eating. How you’re pooping, how you’re feeling, things like that. Which I’ve probably just thrown about 50 different wrenches into the mix of answering this question, but. Plants, it’s just never clear-cut for me.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok.
Liz Wolfe: Did I, was I confusing?
Diane Sanfilippo: No. I mean, I think that point is a really good one. Because I think that people just kind of assume that eating an endless supply of vegetables is always a good idea.
Liz Wolfe: Right.
Diane Sanfilippo: Like, it’s another one of those myths. And, I mean, I think that’s probably why she’s asking the question.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Like, how much should I be eating, and the answer is always “We don’t know.” Whenever somebody asks how much, it’s like, for whom, and with what biochemical makeup, and what’s your digestion doing, and what’s your health status? You know? There are always a million factors. You know, somebody was telling me that they were recovering from cancer, perhaps, which is one of the things I talk about in Practical Paleo where it’s the meal plan, you know, maybe I do want them to get lots more different types of phytonutrients from plants, and maybe that’s one of the cases where I say, even, you know, drinking a bunch of green juice could be helpful. You know, I’ve learned about the Gearson therapy, for example. Again, this is totally a tangent. But I think it’s interesting, and that therapy for cancer recovery is really about getting in tons of plant nutrition. Now, one of the things that juicing can do is help to strip away some of the antinutrients in the form of, you know, some of the, perhaps…you know, fiber can even be an antinutrient. Like, as great as fiber might be, it might be getting in the way of us digesting and absorbing the other nutrients in the plants. And so, you know, there’s just like a million ways to think about it. I think the bottom line is like, don’t over think it.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: You know? Eat vegetables, and if you feel like you’re not getting enough of them, eat more of them. You know? And if you feel like you get plenty of them, then don’t. But I think it really depends on the situation. I know Terry Wahl’s protocol for MS has tons and tons of plant foods.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Great! You know, I think sometimes people take that to mean everyone should eat that. So, it might mean for a lot of people, that’s perfectly healthy and they do well with it. It might mean if you have MS you should really try and do that. It might not, you know. It might just mean that that works really well for a bunch of folks, and for some it doesn’t. There are lots and lots of people who are having trouble digesting FODMAPS, which are all going to be, you know, plant based with the exception of dairy, but primarily plant based carbohydrates.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And so, you know, it really varies based on who you are and how your digestion is working. So, keep an eye on your poop for sure. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} The poop pageant.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: People forget, I think, sometimes, or maybe, you know I was surprised when I found this out. A lot of the fat soluble vitamins, vitamin A, vitamin D, vitamin E, those are antioxidants. So, our only source of antioxidants, which I think a lot of people get really geeked out on plants richly colored plants, because they are rich in antioxidants. Well,
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: We could talk about that all day.
Diane Sanfilippo: {Schmidt voice} All day!
Liz Wolfe: All day. Alright. This one…
Diane Sanfilippo: I always laugh when I think about poor Amanda transcribing that. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Sorry.
Diane Sanfilippo: Amanda, you’re going to have to put into parenthesis that that was a Schmidt voice from New Girl. Ok.
Liz Wolfe: Yes. We need those…we need a predetermined list of parentheticals, like, Schmidt voice!
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm. Or,
Liz Wolfe: Steve Martin voice.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah! I was just going to say, this one is from the Jerk.
Liz Wolfe: Mavin Johnson. Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
7. Raw vs. cooking [43:24]
Liz Wolfe: Alright. This one is from Katherine. “Does cooking certain foods diminish their healthful properties. For example, does heating sauerkraut or kimchi kill its probiotic potential? Does melting grass-fed cheese diminish the vitamins? Does heating raw milk negate the benefits of getting it raw? Thanks for your help!”
Diane Sanfilippo: So, on a couple of those questions, it’s pretty answer. If you’re looking for probiotic benefits from sauerkraut or kimchi, or some of the sort of live enzymes that we’re getting from the raw milk, so those live lactase enzymes for example, yes heating it will destroy that. I believe it’s around 118 degrees, which, you know, that’s not really that warm, but yeah heating it will kill it. So if you’re doing sauerkraut sort of German style, where it’s you know, as hot as the rest of your food, that’s not really going to be a probiotic source for you. Same thing with your raw milk. Now, if you pour raw milk into something like, hot coffee, I’m not sure if it gets to that point where it’s hot enough or it’s you know getting hot enough where it’s going to kill those enzymes, but that’s one thing where I just, you know, if you’re getting raw, don’t heat it. Like, the point of it being raw is that it never was heated or pasteurized, you know. Even though you may not get it as hot as the pasteurization would be, I just wouldn’t heat it. I think it’s kind of negating some of that purpose. Do you want to cover a couple of these other questions here? My voice is dying.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, which ones did you just answer? Because I was looking at the other questions.
Diane Sanfilippo: Uh, I was talking about the sauerkraut, kimchi, and the raw milk. Do you want to just cover the melting of the cheese and some other foods when they’re cooked?
Liz Wolfe: Sure. I don’t know if melting grass-fed cheese diminishes the vitamins. I would imagine not, because generally melting is at a pretty low temperature, and for a fairly short period of time, I would think, so that’s probably ok. I did want to say something about kind of the raw versus cooked thing, and I actually talk about this a lot in my book as far as nutrients and what cooking does to them. Interestingly, when we cook food, especially protein, it actually makes, I don’t like to say the calories from that food more bioavailable, but it actually, it’s basically kind of like predigesting that food, and it has a lot to do with why we as humans grew bigger brains, and now we have to fuel these bigger brains, and so it is important that we cook at least some of our food. I think it’s important to get a mix know, in Chinese medicine, I believe there is kind of a tenant that basically says, we should be cooking all of our food, because we either have to cook it outside our bodies, or we have to cook it inside our bodies, and if we actually want to task our bodies less, we would cook our food and whatnot. I’m not a Chinese medicine practitioner, but that was just kind of….our Chinese medicine veterinary doctor basically was talking to me about that, which I thought was interesting. So, I think if we’re talking about cooking raw food, there is certainly an argument for doing that on a regular basis. I’m not a raw foodist, that’s for sure. I think the concepts are interesting and they sound good in theory. I think a lot of the modern raw food movement is based on the acid/alkaline theory of health, which is not so much true. {laughs} So, that’s kind of where I come down on it. I think in general, like a mix of both, and like you say sometimes, Diane, if something is palatable raw, go for it. If it’s not so palatable raw, it might be better to cook it up and release some of its nutrition.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think that some of the important nutrition from grass-fed cheese, you know, if we’re getting vitamin A from that cheese, I don’t know that it’s super sensitive to heat.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: You know, it will be, but things like vitamin C, the water soluble vitamins, I think are even more sensitive to it.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Definitely vitamin C is going to be sensitive to heat, so even though things like broccoli have tons of vitamin C, you know, steaming it is great, you know, I think too much heat will start to kill some of that, but some of these veggies are so packed with, vitamin C for example ,we’re still getting a bunch from it even if it’s cooked, because we really can’t eat it very well raw, so it’s kind of like you have to take the good with the bad.
Liz Wolfe: So basically, song and dance, we kind of know, we don’t know, it’s ok, it’s good, just eat.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Just eat.
Liz Wolfe: Just eat. Ok. So, let’s see. I think we have time for one more. Which one should we do? I’m looking at which would be a little shorter.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think we’re going to have to do this one for surgery next, and that will wrap us up.
8. Eating to prepare for surgery [48:21]
Liz Wolfe: Alright. Question, eating for surgery. Brandy asks, “Dear Diane and Liz. Thank you so much for making my dreadful 50-mile roundtrip commutes in Atlanta more bearable. I cannot wait to start working from home, hopefully in the next 6 months. Meanwhile, I’ve been listening to your podcasts for the last 3-4 months. I now have Practical Paleo, The 21-Day Sugar Detox, and have preordered Eat the Yolks.” Thank you Brandy! I appreciate every single preorder, and every single order, so thank you. “Yes, I’m a proud BB groupie” {laughs} “and I recommend y’all to everyone I know who will listen within ear shot. Thank you for all you do to help us out here trying to find our health. My question is, how do I prepare for surgery? I searched the archives and found Steve’s question, which was more geared towards postoperative recovery. While that was helpful, I would very much appreciate any advice regarding nutrition and supplementation leading up to it, and sure, more information on postsurgical recovery nutrition if you want to throw me some bones. Ha ha. I’m planning on doing The 21-Day Sugar Detox autoimmune protocol starting January 6,” So, we’re a little late with this question. {laughs} Just a little bit late.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oopsie.
Liz Wolfe: Oopsie! Sorry. “Is there also some more focused guidance for the trauma that surgery entails. I was recently diagnosed with a torn rotator cuff, supraspinatus tendon for which surgery is recommended. I have scheduled the surgery for 6 weeks for now, just after valentine’s day.” So we’re not too late.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh good. We’re still in.
Liz Wolfe: Yes. “What happened was, I was doing Crossfit heavily for a year, and last Thanksgiving I had slow onset burning shoulder pain. I was diagnosed with a possible labral tear, which I treated aggressively with occupational therapy and dialed back Crossfit for about 10 months. I’ve been inactive, save for the occupation therapy, for the last 2 months. I miss Crossfit terribly, and am both terrified and excited to get the surgery so I can get back to Crossfit. It’s very important to me because it gave me the courage to leave a bad marriage, and I looked and felt better than I ever did in my life. I’m a 35–year-old female, current weight 165 at 5’ 6”, about 20 pounds heavier than I was happiest and most active during my first year of Crossfit. I typically eat paleo 80/20, which for me is paleo plus treats. I typically cheat with dairy and sugar, more rarely gluten-free treats. I now take probiotics due to a very recent frequent stress related infections, like the flu, cold, and bronchitis. I caved and took antibiotics. I also just received fermented cod liver oil/butter oil blend, and will start that as well. I take Mark Sisson’s primal blueprint damage control multivitamin but will not likely continue with this once I run out in favor of getting nutrition from whole foods.” That’s my girl. “I take Synthroid and Cytomel due to having half of my thyroid because of invasive thyroid nodule removed in ’99. I also take Claritin and Flonase for allergies and trazodone for depression and sleep. As I mentioned, I haven’t been exercising much for the last 6-8 weeks due to depression and lacking interest since I cannot Crossfit at the level I’m used to. I’m interested in walking and yoga until I can return to my previous fitness level. I do routinely get 8-9 hours of sleep every night, although I do stay up late on most weekends because I’m a DJ, and photographer, in addition to my day job.” Lots of things. All of the details. So, point is, eating for surgery. Let’s tackle that first. So, I know the doc gives some recommendations as far as what you can and can’t do, and of course, heed those. I’m pro-nucleic acid. Super pro=nucleic acid, which you can get from Brewer’s Yeast, the Lewis Lab Brewer’s Yeast. Their new version is also rich in nucleic acid. So, although we’ve talked about how it’s lower in chromium, if you wanted to get some nucleic acid in, that would be a good place to get it, as well as liver. And, people are I think a little bit fascinated with the whole raw liver thing that I’ve talked about recently, and I don’t know that that could hurt if you tolerate it. So, that would kind of be my number one recommendation. Do you have anything, Diane?
Diane Sanfilippo: Uh, not really. I mean, beyond what we’ve covered in like a bunch of other pre-surgery questions. I mean, right? We’ve talked about a bunch of stuff before, like getting some bone broth, and some like cartilage glycine rich foods and things like that, maybe some other forms of gelatin.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, just making sure that foundation is set as much as possible leading up to it. And, I think it’s also more of a lifestyle issue than anything leading up to surgery. I mean, if you’re getting all the most nutrient dense foods that you possibly can, then that’s fantastic and that’s all you can do from a “what you put in your mouth” perspective, but I know, you know, for me I’ve had surgery before, and it’s stressful to think about. It’s, you know, it can cause a little bit of extra stress, it can cause a little bit of depression and all that. So, I think from a lifestyle perspective, really incorporating things like meditation and gentle yoga. Even some, like, dry brushing to improve circulation, things like that. And whatever you can do to really stay calm and relaxed and to keep your cortisol levels where they should be in the weeks leading up to surgery, I think that would set the framework for the type of recovery that you’re hoping for.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Sorry. The only other thing I wanted to mention, because she talks about a bunch of medications she’s on for allergies and depression and sleep, and you know, she’s saying that she’s dealing with some depression because she can’t Crossfit the level she’s used to. I think it’s a really important factor to recognize the seasons in your life, and this is something that I struggle with. I don’t really struggle with it, but I kind of do a little bit because, you know…
Liz Wolfe: Maybe some light tussling.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I’m ok with it.
Liz Wolfe: You arm wrestle with it.
Diane Sanfilippo: But it bugs me that I want, I basically want to be at the gym more than anywhere else pretty much most of the time. Like, I love cooking, and I love training, and I love being around people who are training, and that’s partially because the people that I am around at the gym are so, you know, positive and progressive in their thoughts, and I just really like being there. And so, I’ve kind of been that way for a lot of years now, like ever since I played team sports in high school, I’ve always just loved being in an athletic environment. And so, you know, it’s one of the reasons why I didn’t opt for an RD, I was like, I’d rather work with athletes, and I don’t really, you know, that’s not the approach I want to take, I want to work with people who, you know, are really trying to heal themselves. And so, long story short, I’ve had to make a really strong change in my own mindset about my training. Like, for example, tonight in about 3 minutes, when we are finished with this podcast, I’m going to change and go to the gym. And the workout that’s written for today is intense. But I have been away, and I have been sick, and I want to go because I miss the community factor. But I know that the capacity for me to work at is not anywhere near 100% right now. So, I’ve already got programmed into my brain that I’m probably going to work at about 50-60% of my capacity, and I’m ok with that. Because, I still want to be there, I want to be part of the community, I want to just move my body, and you know, it will feel good to kind of heat everything up and get some blood flow going. But, I, you know, I’m feeling fine I just sound not great. But that’s one of those things where, if you’re slipping into this depressive mindset, I think that’s really stressful for your body. We forget that these thought patterns that we have actually can manifest in physical stressors. So, you know, I just want to throw it out there and I want to kind of remind, what’s her name again, Brandy, I want to remind her that that’s important to work on and not to beat yourself up over it, but you know, change your thoughts. Because if you continue to tell yourself that if you can’t workout at this capacity, it’s either not worth doing at all, or you’re angry, or you’re not good enough, or whatever, then it’s not helping anything. And, you know, you can see that by the fact that you, you know, you get to a place where you want to be on medication or you feel like you need to be or you are, whatever the case may be. You know, I’ve been there in the past, many years ago, when just different things have gone on in my life and have gotten to a place where I’m just, like, I dig a hole mentally, and it’s not happened to me for many, many, many years now, because of a lot of different factors. And one of them is I just, I see things differently now, and I’m able to just have that mindset all of the time. And I think, you know, people who Crossfit are awesome, but also the worst when it comes to forgiveness of themselves and their body and patience and time and all that good stuff that, you know, it’s about this long journey. It’s not about one workout and just kind of crushing everything all of the time. So, I just wanted to throw that in there because, you know, when it comes to recovery, you’re going to get surgery, you’re going to have to go through recovery. I really want you to feel like you’re able to support yourself mentally and emotionally and not continue to dig deeper. Like, it will be ok. You’re going to heal, you’re going to come out of it. Be patient and kind to your body, and allow yourself the time to go back to Crossfit, and just be like, I’m awesome, I showed up today, and I don’t need to crush this workout. Like, if you want to crush it and you’re next to me and we used to lift the same amount and go the same speed, cool. That’s not where I’m at right now, I’m going to deal with fixing this injury, and then in a few months, maybe I’ll be there again. Who knows. SO, anyway. Sidetracked, but I think it’s important.
Liz Wolfe: I like that. I’ve spent the last 30 years of my life working at about 50-60% of my capacity.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: So I can relate to that.
Diane Sanfilippo: Awesome. I think we need wrap it up.
Liz Wolfe: Alright, so that’s it. We’ll be back next week with more questions. If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, help us spread the word by leaving a review in iTunes, pretty please. Until next week, you can find Diane at You can find me, Liz, at, soon to be Thanks for listening.

Thanks for listening!
Liz & Diane

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