Liz Talks, Episode 35: Liz talks husbands and exercise, mommy wine culture, and more!

This Q&A episode covers solutions for the “obliger” husband who wants to work out but needs a structure to make it happen; Liz’s thoughts on drinking and “mommy wine culture.”  

Liz Talks Episode 35

  • Personal updates [2:37]
  • Being an Obliger and working out [10:53]
  • Mommy wine culture [18:11]
  • Skin type and routine [29:12]
  • Raising intuitive eaters [37:52]


Welcome to Liz Talks. I’m Liz, and I’m a nutritional therapy practitioner and best-selling author; but here, I’m 0% professional and 100% mom, spouse, friend, and over-analyzer. We’re going to talk food, beauty, family, fitness, mental health, friendship, marriage, and everything in between in this season of Liz Talks, and I’m so glad you’re along for the ride.

Remember; this is a podcast about thoughts, feelings, and opinions. And I definitely do not give individual, personal, or medical advice. 

This is episode 35, topic: husbands and exercise; mommy wine culture, and more. 

In case you missed it, last weeks’ episode 34 was a chat with Noelle Tarr of Coconuts and Kettlebells. And, the strong from home program. We talked about parenting, body image, cellulite, and more. It was a great conversation. 

Before I begin, I want to quickly thank Arrowhead Mills for their generous ongoing support of this podcast. Next time you go to the store, as I say every time. Hopefully you’re saying it with me, and not skipping right through it; I’d love to have you support a company that supports my work and look for Arrowhead Mills products. You can also find them on We use Arrowhead Mills pancake mixes every Saturday morning for our pancake tradition. I feel really good about that, and they are really, really tasty. but we also use other products that they have in their store, including their cornmeal. Some of their cereals, as well. Yes, cereal is back on the menu now and then. There’s just nothing better than a little bit of cereal with some raw milk. And I really appreciate the brand and their products. So, let me know if you try it by tagging me @RealFoodLiz on Instagram.

And I also want to remind you, yet again, about an affiliate that I absolutely love, and that’s Vibrant Body Company. Please do not keep wearing a bra that is uncomfortable and restrictive and awful. A lot of us are back to the office now. I’m not; I’m in my closet, which is my office. But a lot of us have to wear, or feel more comfortable wearing regular bras nowadays. And it is time you had one that was comfortable. 

So go to and use code LIZ15, all caps, for 15% off their amazingly comfortable, no wire; I don’t know how they did it, but they did it; certified clean bra; their super soft shelfy tank, which is amazing. Especially if you’re like me and you have smaller breasts. I wear it all the time. And their super comfortable underwear; including their thong. Which, as I always say, is my favorite thong of all time. And you know I am team thong. Even if you think you’re good with what you’ve got; and trust me, I did too. You’re going to love this. And don’t forget, you can do a virtual bra fitting with their master fitter, Heidy. And don’t worry; you don’t have to get naked. I also highly recommend you go back and listen to episode number 28 where the CEO of Vibrant and I talk working at Victoria’s Secret; lifting and separating; and even camel toe. It was a good one. 

  • Personal updates [2:37]

Alright, time for some personal updates! And, I’ve hesitated to say anything about this anywhere in any of my social media. But, I do get a lot of questions about it. So I’m sure this is going to give this episode a COVID warning. And that’s fine; hopefully this is not too controversial. I’ve had almost 2 years to kind of put together my arsenal of what I would do if I got COVID, because I finally did. Right around the time everybody else was getting it, about 4 to 6 weeks ago. I can’t remember exactly when it was. I kind of blocked it out.

But I did get COVID. I managed to dodge it for pretty much the last 2 years, until very recently. And it wasn’t the experience that a lot of the people around me were having. And in that, it was not fun. A lot of folks around Omicron time were saying; gosh, it was just a little cold. I didn’t even know I had it. It was no big deal. Vaccinated and unvaccinated, they were saying kind of those same things.

What happened with us is I think our beloved, cherished nanny, who had already had it had it again. She thought she had allergies; and none of us even thought about the fact that it might be COVID. So she was in the house with both kids for several days. And the only person that ended up getting sick was me. So, it’s interesting. I know that that’s somewhat expected, as far as the actual data as far as infections in children.

Having had the last two years of massive anxiety and planning around what would happen if I did get it, I had a pretty good arsenal in place. And what I chose to do was; I had a company come in and do a nutrient IV that included zinc and vitamins and stuff like that. But they also added a glutathione element to the IV. That, out of everything, was probably the most helpful. And I’ve heard from multiple people to whom I have recommended the same thing, and it was hands down had the most immediate impact. Which is expected, but also always nice when something pans out in reality. 

So, this company does immunity IVs in home. And it’s a really, really great company. They are totally willing to come if you’ve got COVID, if you’ve got the flu. Whatever it is. They take all the proper precautions. And of course, expect you to do the same. But it was certainly one of the most helpful things that I did during that time. 

And obviously, I consulted with my doctor. I made sure to do everything I could to keep my family safe. Although, at the same time, you’re parenting. There is a limit to how much you can do. And I just felt really fortunate that the other folks in the household didn’t end up getting it. 

Now, my case was not; I don’t know, maybe you would consider it mild. But as someone who doesn’t get sick very often, who, that said, has been sick more in the last couple of years than in my entire life. And I think I can say it may be because of the elevated, over-hygiene ethos of the last couple of years. I think we’re all doing everything we can do based on our highest sense of right. Taking care of one another; taking care of ourselves. And I think whatever end of the spectrum you’re on around COVID precautions or your beliefs or your ideas or whatever it is, I think we can all probably agree that at this point, there is a possibility that being so, so detailed about sanitization may have impacted our relationship with viruses and bacteria and all of that. 

So, potentially that has something to do with it. It could also be stress. It could also be that I’m getting older {laughs}. It could be a lot of things, but I’ve definitely been sick more in the last couple of years than ever before. 

But, as someone that doesn’t get sick frequently, it was certainly the sickest I’ve been in a long time. Certainly since I maybe got mastitis like 6 years ago, when I had a fever. I think maybe that was the last time I actually had a fever. So my symptoms were at least two or three days fever. The glutathione really, really helped with that. And I also got a bag of fluids with that, as well. So that was really helpful. But my fever was between 101 and 102.5. The first day of fever, I felt really, really sluggish. 

And to be honest with you; and I’m going to talk about this later today, when I talk about mommy wine culture. I had had several drinks several days before I tested positive. And I just thought I was having the longest hangover of all time. And I remember the day or the evening; the night that the symptoms sort of started that I would pinpoint as when things kind of set into motion with the infection. My daughter was in the bed with me, my husband was out of town, and I just could not sleep. And I was like; am I seriously still hung over? This is ridiculous. I’d had like two or three drinks the night that I had alcohol. And this was like two or so days later. And I was like; you’ve got to be kidding me. 

And then, overnight, it kind of took a turn where I couldn’t sleep. I was just really restless. Felt really hot. And fortunately; again, my daughter was ok, she didn’t catch anything. At least, she didn’t show any symptoms of anything that she might have contracted. Which I feel really grateful for, since we were in the bed together that evening. But having thought it was the worst hangover of all time, when it finally occurred to me to test, it was because it felt like I had spiked a fever. 

So I did a lot of sleeping. I did a lot of frantic reviewing of the research in between naps and stuff like that. And I found some comfort in the fact that I was able to rest and have other people help me with the kids. Not the whole time, but to a degree. Lots of fluids. The glutathione push. The FLCCC protocol. Which I know attempts to stay on track, and stay aligned with the variants that are currently out there. But that’s what I did. 

And I probably; it took me the full probably 10 days to feel normal. And I was still testing positive throughout that time. So it really was; it was a decent case of COVID. I’ve never had the flu before, that I know of. So it was rattling at the time, and interesting now that I can look back on it. But I certainly had a decent case of it. It wasn’t like that light; oh, it’s just a cold. No big deal. Type of thing.

So again. I don’t want to commentate on my personal beliefs or anything like that around the coronavirus other than to say; let’s just do our best to take care of each other. To respect each other. And certainly; when we are sick or not feeling well, stay home. And that goes for any illness; COVID or not. I’ve always been a very, very cautious person around illness. Particularly with my kids. I don’t like to send my daughter to school; and I have this privilege. I have this ability. Not everyone does. A lot of people are trying to juggle work and earning a living with making sure their kids are taken care of and in school. People who can’t take a day off, things like that. 

But I have always been very cautious in that if my daughter has a cough or the sniffles or whatever it might be, I do my best to keep her home to rest. So I do the same for myself. And I hope we can all do that for each other. Just be really courteous of each other’s space; of each other’s boundaries, and understand that this is such a scary time for so many people. And we can all give a little bit of ourselves. It’s not all about us individually. Now, that doesn’t mean that we have to make choices that we’re not comfortable with. But at the very least we have to seek to understand one another a little bit, and at least have compassion for the fact that this time in history is one of the most stressful that many people around us have ever experienced. 

Oof! I hope I didn’t ruffle too many feathers with that. Do I do ok guys? But if I had to recommend anything that was really helpful for me, it would certainly be the nutrient IV with the glutathione. That was really, really helpful.

  • Being an Obliger and working out [10:53]

Ok, now that I’ve lost half of my listeners, let’s move on. We’ll start with Q&A listener question number one. “My husband is an Obliger,” and this is referencing Gretchen Rubin’s Four Tendencies framework, which is very interesting. Your four options in the Gretchen Rubin framework are Rebel, Questioner, Obliger, and Upholder. 

So, an Upholder is someone that kind of sets their own standards and meets them. This is all about how you respond to expectations. So an Upholder would set their own expectations and meet them. That is, too a T, my husband. 

An Obliger is someone who wants to meet and fulfill the expectations of others. 

A Rebel; you can imagine. 

And a Questioner is someone that needs a lot of questions answered before they can meet the expectations of someone else. They have to have an understanding, inside and out, of what that person wants from them and what’s sort of going on. 

So, I am an Obliger. So I’m a good one to dig into this question. Obligers are interesting, if I do say so myself. And one of the things that Obligers need, or at least that I need, is to structure my life in a way that if I want to accomplish something that I am accountable to someone. So I don’t set my own standards. For me, it will always be; for example, my trainer. Who is waiting for me at the gym to show up and do what I need to do for my body. Who needs this from me so that I really want to do it. And there are healthy and unhealthy aspects to that type of a personality. And that’s ok. 

But this person says, “My husband is an Obliger, and wants to workout but will not get himself to do it.” I feel that. “He feels like he needs to find another group or community style gym, like the CrossFit gym he used to go to. But it simply doesn’t fit into our schedules anymore. I, being an Upholder, have created my own gym and system down in our basement, and have no problem getting myself to workout before work in the mornings. I haven’t found a way to get some movement in. He wants it, but can’t hold himself accountable to do it the way a coach would at a gym. So, the question is; what do we do?”

So I kind of bounced this off my trainer, Nick Briney, who is awesome and is really good at sort of putting together ideas and plans for folks. And by the way, he does virtual training. I don’t know how much virtual training he’s doing right now. But I kind of bounced this off Nick, and we thought about it a little bit. I thought about what might work for me if I was in a similar situation. And here are some of the notes that I wrote down.

What I did note was that there was no mention of, it doesn’t fit in financially. So I’m going to go there first. If something like a trainer would work in theory, from a financial perspective, and from an accountability perspective, but it doesn’t fit into the schedule; what I wanted to bring up is that maybe it would be feasible to pick just one day during the week that he can make it to a gym and train with someone. Because just one day a week is still something. And I certainly get into this idea that if I can’t do it all, I can’t do anything of significance. And that’s a really limiting belief. And it’s also inaccurate. 

Because, again, one day a week is still something. And maybe paying for a gym membership will get him annoyed enough to use it more frequently. You don’t know that. That could be the case. But even if not, this sort of minimum effective dose training has been studied. And it does show significant upside. So if it’s just a matter of being healthier, whatever your baseline is in being elevated to a degree from baseline, just working out one day a week is significant. So if you can get that in there and feel good about it, it might actually lead to more good habit establishment from there. 

So if you can make it to a gym one day a week, devote an hour in the gym and then you’ve got your travel time there and back. That’s maybe an hour and a half, two hours, depending on where you’re at. Or, if a trainer can come to your house, that might work out, too. So again, just one day a week is still something. Particularly with strength training. And if you can integrate that with your schedule, I would certainly prioritize that.

Now; I don’t know what to say between walking and strength training, because walking; locomotion, is just so key to so many other things. But strength training is, too. So maybe if I had to pick one, I would pick strength training, at least for a period of time. At least for a sequence of strength training activities with kind of a goal in mind. Maybe you work with a virtual trainer who puts together something for you and checks in now and then. That type of accountability is not as powerful for me as it might be for other Obligers, but it could work. 

Someone could write a program for you that you can do at home, or someone can check in with you to make sure you’re accountable to whatever it is that you want to do. Maybe starting a group, some kind of online accountability, that kind of thing. Again, that wouldn’t be all that compelling for me, but maybe it is for some Obligers. 

But doing some kind of 6-8 week training protocol; even if that’s once a week with someone at the gym. And then from there, maybe doing exclusively walking for a week or two, and then mixing it up. Alternating one or the other.

Or, ideally, doing one day of strength training a week with a trainer, and then fitting in walks with your family. evening walks, morning walks, whatever it may be. Parking farther away from the store that you’re going to. Whatever that is. To get some locomotion in during the course of the day. 

So, other than that, potentially you being an Upholder, maybe you could task yourself with getting him to move and workout with you in the mornings. Shove him down there and make him do it. I do find that when my husband and I do stuff like that together, we actually really connect over it. We get those endorphins, and we just feel like a team. So that can be really fun, too. 

So that was most of my thoughts around this. Hopefully you can reach out and let me know how all of that goes. 

Oh, and here’s another thing. Sometimes I put on my Diane cap; Diane, my podcast partner for 8 years from the Balanced Bites podcast. And I feel like something Diane would say is that this is not your problem. I mean, she might not say it exactly like that. But Diane was really good about saying; look. You can’t force anybody to do anything. Maybe your hope that he’ll do the right thing for himself and of course the right thing for him is also the right thing for his family. But, you want to help him get some movement in, but the only person that can really do it is him. 

So free yourself of any kind of obligation or responsibility to make something happen. This has got to be really difficult for an Upholder, but truly, this doesn’t fall on you. So if you can maybe let that go, perhaps as an Obliger, he won’t feel the same pressure. Because unfortunately, guys, even as an Obliger, we have Obliger blind spots. for example; I don’t Oblige to my husband; it just is impossible. So, that’s my blind spot. I wish it wasn’t. But it is. It’s just the reality. 

  • Mommy wine culture [18:11]

Ok, here’s listener question number two. “I don’t know if you see this in your mom-sphere, but I’ve always been really intrigued by this concept of mommy wine culture. It’s probably a tricky subject to tackle, but you’ve already done some tough topics and done a great job.” Hopefully, I did a great job today when I talked about COVID. “So, I think it would be interesting, and possibly helpful, for some moms who might be struggling to hear you talk about this. And maybe it’s not wine specifically, but in my bubble, there’s a lot of daily drinking wine talk/getting through the day as stay at home moms to drink at night. I’m curious if you see this.”

Alright, so my semi-formed thoughts on this are as follows: I am a casual drinker. As in, a few times a month, I’ll have a few drinks. Right now, I’d usually go for a paloma or a margarita, which I really, really like one with Life tequila. It’s woman owned, it’s a really great brand. You should look for that. I have a spicy hibiscus; well, jalapeno hibiscus margarita on my website, on And it is so good. And theirs is the tequila I recommend for that cocktail. Or, I’ll go for like a white wine. Something like that.

But, the last time I had a few drinks, I ended up with COVID. And again, thinking I had the longest hangover of all time. So at this point, I’m a little gun shy about drinking, just because; I mean, I really believe. Well, I don’t just believe, I know, scientifically, it does suppress the immune system. And I always kind of dismissed that thinking; I’m a healthy person. I have a good functioning immune system. I’m good. I’m sure it suppresses your immune system, but not to the degree that you’re going to be laid up with COVID for 10 days. 

Well, it turns out COVID doesn’t discriminate and alcohol doesn’t either. So it is an equal opportunity immune suppressant. And COVID is an equal opportunity infector, during the course of a hangover. 

So at this point, as I see it, I’m not the biggest fan of drinking. I had a couple of drinks at a birthday celebration a couple of nights ago. And you know; it messes with my sleep. I don’t wake up feeling great. I’ve got too many responsibilities at this point to mess with it. 

But at the same time, I know other folks look at it, really, as almost a refuge. It’s something for them to look forward to at the end of the day. And you know what; an aside. I totally get that. It’s in a way somewhat the same. Not entirely the same because with alcohol at the end of the day, it’s like this idea that you’re going to unwind. But when I used to drink coffee at the beginning of the day; it’s that, how you get yourself into the day and then alcohol is how you get yourself out of the day.

Well, it’s still a ritual. It’s still something you feel like you can’t replace and you can’t live without. Well; I realized that coffee wasn’t really serving me well. And I gave up on it. And now it’s like; I don’t even think about it. I’m not trying to find a coffee substitute. I’m not reaching for a hot mug in the morning and thinking; gosh, I wish I could drink coffee. I just got used to not drinking it anymore. And now it doesn’t even occur to me. There’s no morning ritual that I feel like I’m missing. It’s nothing like that. And I actually think detaching myself from that ritual that had become a habit was good for me. 

So, maybe there are some similarities; some parallels there. Where if you just stop, and I know not everybody can. Which I’ll talk about. But if you just stop, it probably will become a lot more natural to just not worry about. 

Now, I did post to Instagram the other day that bubbly water has become my coping mechanism {laughs}. It really is something I enjoy. But, I need to be careful about that too. Because I do feel like it makes my teeth a little bit more sensitive. Anyway, that’s an aside.

Ok, in general, this whole debate over mommy wine culture in some ways feels kind of manufactured. Kind of like when we were having the formula wars, where it was like; fed is best! No, breast is best! And then we had all these formula companies come out with these empowering commercials. And I just started to feel like; wow. When something like this goes commercial, you know that it’s not a conversation. It’s a corporate talking point. 

So that got to a point where I was like; you know what? Do whatever you have to do to get by. Make the best decision you can that is aligned with, not just your highest sense of right, but also your capacity to deal with life. 

So, as far as mommy wine culture goes. The conversation to me feels a little bit like we went from; ha, ha, ha, funny wine memes; acknowledging how difficult, for example, stay at home motherhood is. To, everybody has to give up alcohol for 60 days otherwise you’re addicted to it, and you have a problem. And it ended up feeling like this is just one more thing to police women about. One more thing to judge each other about. And one more thing to be smug about on social media. Not everyone, but some people.

And I’m also not sure that all these people joking about wine are actually drinking that much wine. I think it’s a funny joke in some ways, but not everyone who is saying, “Beep, boop, parenting made possible by nightly cabernet” is actually cracking open a bottle of wine every night. Some are. But not all. So I think to the degree that we are policing humor, I feel like we should take a chill pill. A chill pinot noir; you see what I did there? 

I mean, I think at this point the joke is kind of stale. But it still works here and there. We can make that joke here and there. 

But that said; alcohol and drinking is not good for you. Even in small amounts. It’s hard on your liver. It impairs your judgement and your sleep. So I think it’s also wise to have a frank and straightforward discussion about it. And this is coming from someone who has not given up alcohol at this point. I mean, officially. I don’t know that I need to make it official to just do what’s best for myself. 

But we’re adults. And we can identify our own underlying coping mechanisms and tendencies if we’re being really, really radically honest with ourselves. Right? So I’m all about balance and not freaking out about things, like delicious treats and suboptimal choices. But there is a point at which a really unemotional assessment is useful. 

And I think more than a croissant or a funnel cake or any other indulgence that doesn’t’ actually impair your ability to function in an emergency; alcohol intake is on deck for that kind of evaluation. 

So when I think about this; I know there are genetic markers for predispositions to addiction and dependency. and for some people, finding that out could be enlightening. and help assess the risk benefit ratio of drinking. 

Hearing others criticize alcohol intake, and specifically mommy wine culture, might be that push some people need to evaluate something in a new light, or do something different. Because it’s hard. It’s hard to change routines. It’s hard to opt out when everyone else is doing something. Or when we think everyone else is doing something. 

So, whatever inspires self evaluation is probably good. As long as it actually inspires self-evaluation, versus just shaming and blaming. 

Ok. So to this end; what if we just asked ourselves a few questions. How do I tolerate alcohol? For me, the older I get the less I feel ok the next day. So there’s strike one. How do I feel when I drink? The more often I do it the less fun it is. Strike two. How do I sleep that night after drinking? Terrible. Or at least, I don’t wake up feeling good, which is a sign that I didn’t sleep well, even though you can fall asleep hard from drinking, but it doesn’t mean you sleep well. Then how do I feel when I wake up in the morning? Terrible. So what strike are we on? I don’t even know. 

Another question; how often do I drink? For me personally, again, a few times a month. Maybe two cocktails each time. I don’t like just having a beer when I go golfing. I don’t go on a plane and have a cocktail on a plane. I don’t like having to go to the bathroom all the time. I don’t know. I don’t drink every evening. Maybe in the Thursday night golf scramble, I might have two to four, if we’re really having fun after. There are stretches where I have had a glass of bubbles or a glass of wine or a beer to wind down in the evening. And it just keeps not feeling good. 

And there’s also no solid or reputable scientific evidence that I’m aware of that a glass of wine each night is actually beneficial in any way. That is a myth. So in that case, it’s just empty calories. Which, yes, are a thing. And that is completely separate from diet culture, by the way. It’s empty calories that suppress your immune system and tax your liver. And certainly as we all age, that becomes less and less of a surmountable thing. 

So in my opinion, alcohol consumption is probably something better left for specific occasions, versus the occasion of; the kids are finally down for the night, and now I get to watch Peaky Blinders. Which, by the way; did you guys know there’s another season of Peaky Blinders? You probably do. Not recently, but it came out sometime between the last season and the other day when I realized another one came out. 

Ok. So here’s another thing. You can also do genetic testing to see what your propensity for addiction is. That might be interesting. But all of this is also your choice. If you have honestly evaluated all of these questions, if you do not have concerns around addiction, or a family history of addiction. If your body tolerates it well and you don’t have unwanted weight gain, sleep issues, mood issues, and it’s not something you’re not using to cope; rather it’s something you enjoy for more robust reasons. For example, an appreciation of wine itself. The flavors; the artistry of it. Which is actually how I feel about beer, by the way. I’d rather do a beer tasting than a wine tasting. Then maybe you’re good to go.

But if it’s just sort of flimsy, thoughtless, “adulty life is silly beans, so I’ll just try to survive until I can drink my dinner.” You know, maybe you can do better.

And by the way, speaking of beer. A present I got; here’s a little present idea. A couple of years ago, for my husband when he still drank beer. Which he’s kind of eliminated that now. But I got him little beer flight glasses. And for his birthday, I put them in the freezer. Got them really cold and frosty, and then we did a little at home beer tasting. It was a pandemic birthday. And it was really fun.

So; that’s kind of a hypocritical thing to say at the end of a whole spiel on drinking and limiting or reducing drinking. But take it as you will.

  • Skin type and routine [29:12]

Alright, listener question number three. Skin type and routine. “I was a huge fan years ago and got your skincare guide. I had great skin. Boom; COVID hit, and adult acne is an ongoing S-H-I-T storm. I’m trying here, but always like to see input. I used to use oils and clays, and I can’t use any of that now. I still go nontoxic, but can’t seem to use those earthly goodies anymore. Trying to heal the gut, but it’s hard and slow.”

So. I lo-ove skincare questions; it’s like my favorite thing. I built a lot of my; a lot of people might not know this, but I built a lot of my following a lot of my business on talking about natural skin care. Back before all of the amazing, intelligent, brilliant, highly trained skin care experts were on social media. I’ve taken a little bit of a step back, and now I’m excited to talk about it again.

Because for a long time, during kid years, I wasn’t doing a whole lot of anything consistently. I had some posts about my favorite skin care products and the things I was discovering; but man, it was hard enough to organize my thoughts over the last couple of years. So I’m excited to be talking about this again. 

So, I asked my esthetician expert, Genevieve Blair, who by the way is @GennyBBeauty on Instagram; Genny with a G. Genevieve said; “how old is she? Is she nearing menopause? If so, she’s turning more water dry and oil dry.” And by the way, Genny gave me permission to share this. “If she’s nearing menopause, she’s turning more water dry and oil dry,” Which is something I’ve talked about previously. You can be water dry or you can be oil dry. Both of those substances, water and oil, combine to maintain the moisture levels in your skin. So it’s a process. 

And Genny says, “That can cause adult acne.” So figure out if water or oil dryness is new or the culprit. Look at dry flakes; or can you scrape your nail across your nose and pick up oil and dead skin. Dry flakes is oil dry, nail junk is water dry. Both, then both. 

So most adult onset acne is due to changes in water or oil without routine changing to address those. Sometimes it’s hormonal; obviously if she’s in the child birthing season of life, it’s probably due to internal hormone flux. So a lot of this depends on what season of life you’re in, as well as probably the stress of the pandemic. 

Genevieve also said, “Niacinamide and zinc are great for congested, water dry breakouts. Ilia super serum foundation is fantastic for this; nondrying but has both ingredients in it and is clean.” So, I wanted to throw in a little bit of what Genevieve had to say, because she’s so amazing, and so generous with her time. 

But one of the things I wanted to say is; trying to heal the gut, that’s great. Hard and slow; totally get it. It’s really hard. But I want to remind folks that if something isn’t working, like a gut healing protocol isn’t working within a certain period of time, you should not get significantly worse before you get better. Your gut should not get significantly worse. You should not feel like crap for long periods of time. And your skin should not stay terrible for long periods of time. If that’s what’s going on, then we need to try a different protocol. 

And there are many. There are multiple gut healing protocols. Some of them involve taking antibiotics! I know. That’s like; reh, reh. Don’t say that. But some of them do. There are certain types of antibiotics that may even be safe and provide anti-inflammatory properties. At some point, perhaps I’ll be able to go into that. But I don’t want to say a whole lot more, because I think this stuff varies so highly from person to person. And I’ve learned by this point not to be super specific, because then 6 months later, somebody comes to you and has been taking whatever antibiotic it was you talked about for 6 months and their gut is completely destroyed. There is certainly a; not only a cost-benefit ratio, but also a minimum effective dose on that. 

So there are some protocols that do that. There are some protocols that use all nourishing healing foods. There are some that use supplements. And there are some that use none of those things, and just have to do with completely stripping down your life, reducing your stress, dealing with trauma, and just really bringing it back down to basics. 

So multiple things might feel good. And if your body is really rebelling from whatever protocol you’re on, there is no harm in seeking out other opinions. It doesn’t mean you have to abandon everything you were planning on doing, but you can look elsewhere.

One of the people I really enjoy following is Joel Greene; green with an E on the end. He’s super interesting. You know, I love Ray Peat’s stuff. I love Danny Roddy, who I interviewed in an earlier episode. But I also really enjoy following Joel Greene. He’s very utilitarian about eating, and I’ve tried his protocol. Not to say it didn’t “work” for me, but I just didn’t enjoy it, being that he is even more utilitarian about eating than I have ever been. Where he really looks at food as a delivery system for the compounds that that body needs to function a certain way.

And that’s compelling; but it’s also really difficult to live that way, depending on who you are. And I didn’t particularly enjoy it, so it’s not something I continued to do. But if I were in a worse state. If I was really struggling, it might feel more worth it to me. But, you know, at the time it was really just self-experimentation and curiosity. And that’s not always reason enough. Right? 

So I enjoy Joel Greene’s work; I enjoy Ray Peat’s work. I also enjoy, for example, my friend Kristen Boehmer. Her gut healing course, I believe, is available. So there are a lot of different ways to approach this. You just have to figure out what works best with your physiology.

Someone recently reached out to me on Instagram about thyroid typing. Or a thyroid body type. And I cannot remember what particular; I don’t know, system she was using. But she did send me something. Let me see if I can find it. I don’t know anything about it, but I’ll just name it here just in case. I know nothing about it, I haven’t looked into it, but it might be interesting. 

So on that internal healing journey, maybe it’s about the gut bacteria. Maybe it’s about lipopolysaccharide. Maybe it’s about nutrients. Maybe it’s about stress. What resonates there? What feels like it might be that first lever that you want to pull? Because in the end, there are so many different ways to approach gut healing. But it really involves a lot of self-reflection. And rather than outsourcing a lot of your agency, insourcing it a little bit more. I don’t know if that’s actually a word. 

So other than that; it could be stress promoting cortisol promoting sebum production and the sebum oxidizing, causing inflammation. That type of thing. It could be a lot of things. In general, I think an anti-inflammatory diet, antistress activities, gentle exercise, and getting a lot of sleep are always the general keys for calming the system and being able to get back to a baseline so you can start dealing with what’s really going on under the surface. 

As far as natural compounds; some of them are just really strong. A lot of times we like to think of natural compounds as the most gentle; but that’s not always the case. I’ve told the story about lavender oil and my daughter’s reaction to it many, many times. So, while I really advocated for a lot of natural strategies; those felt really good when I first wrote my skin care guide. They were also very affordable. Now, of course, there are tons of amazing skin care brands that really have taken the best and the most rare and effective components, compounds, oils, salves, serums; what are those things called? The rose water… I forgot. Hydra… oh my gosh, why can’t I think about it? The flower waters you can spray. Oh my gosh, I’m going crazy. 

All of those things are great, and there are a lot of gentle items out there that you can use that are “natural”. But the clays and the oils; a lot of them have a ton of very concentrated active constituents in them that for some skin, it’s a little bit overwhelming. So one of the things I used to say to folks is; bring it back to basics. Water. Maybe oil cleansing with jojoba oil. And starting from there. Just doing really, really basic stuff, and then build it back up.

A lot of times, we try to do more when we’re having issues, when the solution is actually to do less. So hopefully that helps. That brings a little bit of extra insight to the question. Please update me and let me know how you’re doing. 

  • Raising intuitive eaters [37:52]

Ok; listener question number four. Raising intuitive eaters. “I was listening to Diane’s new podcast, and I realized that I’ve been living myself fully immersed in diet culture. For 10 years, I’ve been eating vegan, then paleo, now low-carb keto; etc. So I was wondering how to approach this with my two boys. I want them to eat healthy, but I don’t want them to have issues around food like me. So how do you explain to the little ones that they can’t eat X or Y because you find that option not to be healthy, or because something does not support their body in the best way?”

So this is such a great question. And I know there are people that really specialize in this. And I’m so sad, because I was talking to someone on Instagram about an interview around kids and food, and somehow the email got deleted or put in the wrong folder and I cannot find it. So by the way; if this is you and you’re listening, please reach out to me again because I cannot find this email and I am completely brain dead. It has nothing to do with anyone not being memorable, it has to do with me being a brain dead human being.

But I want to do that podcast. And I also think a great place to start is the Satter Institute. So it’s the and they have some really interesting stuff around the division of responsibilities around meals. 

Now, that might have a little bit more to do with getting kids to eat in general and how to structure mealtimes. And I think this question has more to do with ensuring your kids don’t end up with a complex around food. And I think it’s just such a great question; it’s such a hard thing. I would love to hear from anybody out there that has ideas and then revisit this question in a future podcast. I know that Diane did tackle this topic in an interview on the Full Plate podcast, with Nicole Cruz. I don’t know Nicole Cruz’s work. Maybe I should. But I think that would probably be a good place to start, as well.

I might do things slightly differently than what folks like this recommend, but I do have conversations around how different components of food can support their bodies. And I will sometimes say; listen, you’ve had a ton of sugar today. I’m a little worried about that, I think we need to cut it off for the day. Sugar can cause cavities. Sugar might make you sleep a little bit poorly. So let’s limit the sugar for the rest of the day. That type of thing. 

I’ll talk about how protein supports their muscle growth. I talk about how fat might help keep them calm and help their brain work well. And that sugar, from fruit and from vegetables and from certain juices and stuff like that helps to give them energy. I don’t do a whole lot of negative talk around food, and nothing is really off limits. Except for the really egregious stuff; because let’s be honest. I’ll tell my kids; they just make that electric blue so kids will want to drink it. 

You know; my kid wants Gatorade now and then. And I’m like; you know, you can have a Gatorade. I let her have a Powerade. I let her have a Gatorade. Because, you know, when you’re a kid that stuff feels like life or death sometimes. But I will also say; look the ingredients here don’t do anything positive for your body. And I want to make sure that you have the tools and the power to make great choices. And you might choose Gatorade one day; but I would love for you to choose water most of the time. 

And she’ll say; but it’s orange! It has oranges in it! And I’ll say; you know it actually doesn’t have any oranges in it. It has an orange color. They want you to feel like you’re drinking something that’s really great for your body, but it’s not. But I still kind of give her the choice. And it’s not like; oh, if you want to do that, fine. It’s not good for you, but it’s fine. There’s no sarcasm around it. There’s no shame or hidden agenda around it. It’s just really trying to have an honest and frank conversation around how children are advertised to.

We talk about, every time we go to the checkout aisle at Target. Can she have tic-tacs? Can she have this? Can she have that? And I say; you know, they put that here because they know kids are going to beg their parents for it. Even though it’s costly, it’s hard for a lot of people to afford these things, and it doesn’t do anything good for your body. I know it tastes good, and it’s really fun to eat. And maybe we can do that at another time. But right now, let’s resist this marketing. {laughs} 

And it’s tough. But I think those are important questions too. I don’t think you want; obviously, we don’t want to give our kids complexes about food. And I think one of the most important things I do around that is to not ever talk negatively about; oh man, I’m going to see this on my hips tomorrow. Or; oh man, I’m so fat. Or whatever it is. I don’t talk negatively about my body, no matter what I eat. 

I’ll say I’m super full. Or I’ll say; man I had way too much junk food today, and I didn’t sleep very well; or I’m not going to sleep very well. That type of thing. Which I think is fine. I think that’s honesty around food. But I certainly don’t say negative things about my body. Certainly not about my body and food. 

And I actually had to correct my mother-in-law the other day because she does tend to talk negatively about herself. And I have such compassion for her because I know it’s just engrained in our culture. But she was talking about her flappy arms or something like that. And I was like; don’t say that. Don’t say that around the kids. They don’t need to hear anybody talking like that about themselves, let alone people that they admire and they care about.

So that’s another thing I try to do, is I try to be very; you know. I try to demand more of the people around me who are speaking in that way about themselves, especially around kids. It’s not that I don’t ever have those thoughts; everybody does. But number one; I’m not going to let them affect me, and I’m certainly not going to let them affect my kids. 

So, that’s been my strategy up till now. But I would love to hear from anybody out there that has good recommendations for ensuring kids grow up with a healthy relationship with food. We don’t have any overt food allergies that I’m aware of, so I don’t do a lot of this; she can’t have this, she can’t have that. 

It does bother me that crappy snacks are so embedded in the culture, that no matter what kids are doing, they have to have some kind of cruddy, food-dye filled, cheap to manufacture, expensive to buy, terrible for the body type of stuff to commemorate the occasion. That bothers me a little bit. It bothers me that every day at summer camp, somebody is giving somebody a treat or a Gatorade or something like that. It seems like summer camp would be a really wonderful place to promote the virtues of water, or just bring a big basket of apples instead of something with a wrapper. 

So another thing I also like to talk to my oldest about; my youngest is 2 so she’s not really tuning in yet. But she’ll ask for a snack, and I’ll say; I can’t let you have anything with a wrapper. Because it’s really important that we reduce waste in our home. I will let her take stuff with a wrapper for lunch, because sometimes packing lunches is just tough. So she ends up with a couple of things in wrappers. But in our house, we try to stay away from anything with wrappers. And that’s a matter of being responsible for the amount of waste that we produce in the world. So that’s another angle that I think is valid and helpful. 

Alright folks. I think that’s going to be it. I’ll do a mild overshare quickly. I just posted to my Instagram stories about buying a Diva cup. And I got some really interesting responses, including quite a few that said go to the website, and do the quiz for what cup would be best for you. So I did that and I actually came up with a couple of options that were not the Diva cup. And that was really interesting. They ask you questions like, do you have a tilted uterus. How difficult is it to find you cervix? Things like that. And it’s really, really helpful. Because there are so many menstrual cups on the market now, it’s really hard to know what’s going to work best.

And if you can shorten that learning curve and figure out which ones would be best for you to try instead of just trying 17 different ones and giving up, which I know a lot of people have done. I think that’s great. So Check it out if you haven’t already! 

That’s it for episode 35. A big thank you to Arrowhead Mills for making this episode possible. Remember, you can ask me anything by sending me a DM @RealFoodLIz on Instagram. But the best way to ask and to ensure it doesn’t get lost in my inbox is to go to

I appreciate you folks! I’ll see you next week. 

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