Noelle Tarr, internet entrepreneur and founder of CoconutsAndKettlebells.com and the Strong From Home program, stops by to chat parenting, cellulite, body image, and more.
Liz Talks Episode 34
- Noelle’s beginning into fitness [16:06]
- Dialing in on a healthy relationship [31:48]
- Diet culture and shame [39:35]
- Women’s bodies and cellulite [46:36]
TRANSCRIPT
Liz Wolfe: Let’s just start talking. So; what’s up? {laughs}
Noelle Tarr: You know; life! Well, we’re recording at the end of the week.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Noelle Tarr: I always; by the end of the week, I’m always just at the end of my rope. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughing} I get it.
Noelle Tarr: I’m always like; how am I going to get through this day? Because usually there’s at least 5 things that I was supposed to get done this week that I didn’t.
Liz Wolfe: Oh yeah.
Noelle Tarr: So I’m trying to figure out now; what do I prioritize? And today, I was supposed to make a cheesecake. Which I just; it just didn’t happen. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Noelle Tarr: It didn’t happen.
Liz Wolfe: Don’t you need like a special pan to make cheesecake?
Noelle Tarr: You need all the things. Yes.
Liz Wolfe: Oh, I love cheesecake.
Noelle Tarr: A springform; it like pops open. So I’m trying to do it dairy free, because they make really good dairy free cream cheese now. It’s really good.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: So I’m just trying to figure out a way to have a good, dairy free cream cheese recipe. Also, it’s searched really well. Nobody steal my idea.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} We’ll beep that part out.
Noelle Tarr: So I’m trying to come up with a good recipe. But it’s hard. And it’s so involved.
Liz Wolfe: Girl; I can’t even make a sheet pan. Jess Gaertner; we both know her.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: She’s amazing. And she created a coconut oil mayo for me, because we love, love mayo at my house. But we’re trying to reduce the polyunsaturated fats that we eat. Because it just gets really; you’re just doing a lot, with mayo. And I still haven’t even; she tested it, she sent to me. She was like; this is really good, I just need you to let me know how it is. And I still haven’t done it. And all I have to do is combine oil, egg, and like lemon juice. That’s it! And I can’t even. So I don’t know. This whole cheesecake thing is just a different universe.
Noelle Tarr: Do you have; you have a stick blender, right?
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Do that motion again, for the boys and girls? {laughing}
Noelle Tarr: I saw myself in my reflection; I was like, ok. I think she gets it.
Liz Wolfe: I need a tourniquet over there? Yes. Yes I do. Is that going to be too intense, or can I use that?
Noelle Tarr: No, that’s how I. When I make my own mayo. Which is really, the twice I’ve done. Because when Primal Kitchen, whatever foods, makes it, it’s like; why?
Liz Wolfe: Ugh.
Noelle Tarr: But when I made it myself, why I was doing that motion, is you kind of have to start at the bottom, and slowly work up for it to blend in altogether. But I mean, it’s worth it. It tastes good. I’m really interested in your coconut oil one, though. That’s a good idea.
Liz Wolfe: Well. I’ll send it to you and maybe you’ll end up testing it before I do.
Noelle Tarr: Ok!
Liz Wolfe: It’s very simple. I mean, there are some downsides to it, obviously. Like; she refrigerated it. And for those who don’t know; Jess is our friend. She cohosts the Modern Mamas podcast with Laura Brunner and she’s amazing and she’s a recipe developer and photographer. So anytime I have a hairbrained idea, I’ll be like; Jess! Can we do this? And by we, I mean you?
Noelle Tarr: Yeah {laughs}.
Liz Wolfe: And it’s simple. And she did put it in the fridge, but it did solidify. But she was able to stir it up again and make it work. So I was just thinking; gosh. If I could just be accountable for one thing. Like, on a Monday I make the coconut oil mayo, and I’m like maybe ok with it sitting on the counter for a couple of days; I don’t know. I mean, I’ve done weirder things. I’ve eaten weirder things. You know. Touched weirder things and not washed my hands.
So just see; I’ve got my shredded chicken, and I can just make a little chicken salad or something at the beginning of the week. And just see. I’m just curious. You know. I’m not trying to be all crazy or mentally imbalanced about what’s in my mayonnaise. We are a mayonnaise family. but I just kind of got curious if I could make that work and if it would be good and if I would notice any difference. So.
Noelle Tarr: No, I like that. Especially when it’s something that you make a lot. And I think this is a good philosophy with kids. It’s like; your kids are going to eat all over the place. They’re going to eat crap sometimes. And that’s fine.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: You know; I hit the easy button a lot. So you just have to be intentional with the things. Somebody asked me that, too; like, what do we; how do I get my picky kid; how do I know my picky kid is going to get nutrients? I’m like; focus on the things that they’re ok eating and eat a lot of.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: For us; my kids love hamburgers. So we make sure we’re using high quality meat from the local farm and we are cooking that quite a bit. Like, we have a lot of hamburger patties. And we make sure we get really high quality eggs. And I know she’s eating that every morning. And we have a lot of grass-fed meats at night. So then you just kind of fill in with what you can.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: So I like that idea of; if we do a lot of mayo, I’m going to try to make it with something a little bit more stable.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. If I can get in a rhythm with it, I think it will be a good thing. I mean, coconut oil is expensive. But I don’t know. We’ll see. It seems like a good idea.
And speaking of kids eating what they’re going to eat. So the older they get, the less control you have {laughs} over the whole thing, as you know. So my 7-year-old comes home from camp the other day. And we live in this amazing community. And they have a summer day camp literally two minutes away. And the other day, I saw my neighbor leaving her house, on her golf cart, and I texted her. I was like; can you pick my daughter up? Because I see you’re on your way, and I’m still finishing something up. She’s like; yeah, of course.
So she goes down in the golf cart. They all come back. And my 7-year-old walks in. Her entire face is electric blue.
Noelle Tarr: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: Like; face and mouth. And I was like; hey. What’d you have to drink down there at the day camp? And she was like. I could see her. She hesitated for a second. She was like; what am I working with here. Can I say nothing? Or does mom know something that I don’t know? Because I totally psychologically screwed her up when she was little. Because I used to say; mommies know everything. You know.
Noelle Tarr: Oh no.
Liz Wolfe: When they’re little, they just; you totally have them pegged. And I would bust her on little things that she would think she was being sneaky about. And she would be like; how did you know? I’d be like; moms know everything. So she still kind of thinks that I know everything. So she kind of paused for a second; and she was like, I had a slushie. {laughs} I was like; oh, you had a slushie. So apparently she went to the little beach shack or whatever it is and ordered a jumbo; like, jumbo electric blue slushie, who knows what food dyes are in there.
Noelle Tarr: Oh gosh!
Liz Wolfe: I mean; they take ice and they turn it and they just pervert it in every way humanly possible. Just add sugar and food dye. You’d think that they would figure out a way to leave no trace.
Noelle Tarr: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: But her entire face was blue! So she’s down there. She knew our member number, and the last name. Gave it to the people.
Noelle Tarr: Oh my gosh!
Liz Wolfe: She got a 10-gallon slushie. So, you know. Whatever. It wasn’t the best evening in our house. We were a little wired.
Noelle Tarr: I was about to say; how was the rest of the day?
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. It’s frustrating when you feel like you’re trying to do everything right, and then something like that happens. And it’s just life.
Liz Wolfe: You let them out in the world. Yep.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. And I’m not willing to; and this is the balance of understanding that we are both emotional and physical. And we have mental health as such a strong component of physical health. I’m not going to flip out about stuff. I’ve had similar experiences; and oh my gosh. For some reason, my kids’ preschool is obsessed with cupcakes.
Liz Wolfe: Uh! They’re all obsessed with cupcakes. All the preschools. {laughs}
Noelle Tarr: It’s constant! It’s like, every week somebody is celebrating something, or the teacher brough in cupcakes. And I’m like; what’s the deal with the cupcakes? Why are we eating cupcakes at 10:30 a.m.?
Liz Wolfe: So many cupcakes. {laughs}
Noelle Tarr: And she eats a whole; you know, we’re in my house. It’s my house, I cut it in half. I cut that sucker in half. And they’re still excited about it.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: But of course, at preschool they give the whole; that is a lot of cupcake. And it’s fine. But, you know, my whole response is; well, did you enjoy it? How did that make you feel? I never want her to feel bad or shame or that she has to hide something from me, or that I’m going to reprimand her for having cupcakes with her friends. And I also really don’t want her to feel left out.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: So if everybody else is doing something, I don’t want her to feel like; oh, I can’t have that. Because I had that experience as a kid, and it didn’t really end well. I was absolutely obsessed with sugar and things I didn’t even; a lot of the candy now. I mean, back then, I don’t know what kind of candy is around nowadays. But 90s kids candy was kind of gross.
Liz Wolfe: Ugh.
Noelle Tarr: There was just a lot of crappy stuff. And I was obsessed with things that I didn’t even really like, because I wasn’t able to have it. And I was even told that I had; I was allergic to sugar. So I would tell that to people.
Liz Wolfe: Oh my. Mm-hmm.
Noelle Tarr: And people were like; you’re allergic to sugar?
Liz Wolfe: To…sugar?
Noelle Tarr: And then I grew up and I was like; oh, I’m not allergic to sugar. My mom just never let me have it.
Liz Wolfe: Oh my.
Noelle Tarr: Right? So I take those experiences and I’m able to learn from them and say; ok. How do I want my daughter to feel and experience social situations and food? I want to think about her mental health as well as her physical health. And you know, we’ll get there, and we’ll talk about how foods make her feel when she gets bigger. But for now, it’s just controlling what’s in my home.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Yeah. When you were saying that, I was thinking; there are kids in our orbit who have legitimate food intolerances. And they know that. And they have seen. You know, there’s a peanut allergy. There’s a food dye allergy. And they know that, and they have a good reason to have to decline these things. And moms; you know, mom’s involved, teachers are involved, everybody is supporting these kids.
But when you were talking, and right before you said this very thing, I was like; you know, my line is having to lie. Not having to. Choosing to lie to my kid about an intolerance that doesn’t exist. So we can about; hey, if she’s having a really rough night, I might say. And tone is important, too. I might say; you know, I think you might be feeling kind of gross because that was a really big, really blue slushie {laughing} and it’s just sitting in your stomach.
Noelle Tarr: Very blue.
Liz Wolfe: Very blue. And it’s just sitting in your stomach, and that might not have been so great. But not; well, you shouldn’t have had that slushie, because it made your stomach feel bad and that’s the choice you made. There’s a big difference in how those two things land. And at the same time; not that I wish a food intolerance on my kid. But if we had a legitimate food intolerance, that would be different. But I think the mental toll of; I don’t know. There appears that there would be some kind of consequence for kids who are having to decline things and feeling left out and all of that that might be a little bit different versus kids who really have those intolerances and need the support of the whole community to make sure they stay safe.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. Absolutely.
Liz Wolfe: Well, the blue slushie notwithstanding, the whole day was just a cluster. Because my husband was out of town, and somebody touched a cactus, and then somebody got bitten by a horsefly, and that somebody; all of that was my 7-year-old. And then we ordered some food because I couldn’t handle it. And then we got the wrong order, and then the 7-year-old stepped on the order. {laughing}
And then we went to all four lost and founds for the day camp that she’s in because we needed to find her shoes, goggles, fishing pole, life jacket, and lunch box. She literally just came home with an empty backpack. {laughing} So it’s like; kid. Kid. There might have been mild shaming in that situation.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: You take something out; you put it right back in. Are your kids old enough to go to camp? Stella’s not old enough yet, is she?
Noelle Tarr: They; so it’s not a sleep away camp. They’re in camp right now, both of my kids.
Liz Wolfe: Nice!
Noelle Tarr: My daughter just turned 5, and Maverick just turned 3. So now both of them are going to camp together. It’s so adorable.
Liz Wolfe: That’s so cute.
Noelle Tarr: It’s really jarring. And I do want to do some sports camps, eventually, because I do feel like moving your body and learning about your strengths and; I feel like that gives a really great lens for kids about activity and movement and all that kind of stuff.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm. Channeling it.
Noelle Tarr: So I want to get her in a gymnastics camp and stuff like that. She’s in gymnastics now. But I’ve seen quite a few of those advertised, and I think those would be a lot of fun. But I don’t know. Just taking it one day at a time.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. We did a little ninja camp, and we do gymnastics now. And my 7-year-old absolutely loves gymnastics. And like me, gymnastics is not her strength. And it’s funny, because you grapple with that, as the kids get older. Where it’s like; you really see that they could be good at something. Or that they’re just naturally inclined towards something. But they want to do something else. And it’s like; oh, it’s kind of gut wrenching. And I don’t know. It’s a whole psychological work around for me. Because I coach basketball. and I coach her soccer. I have no business doing either one of them. But as I’ve said in the past, the other parents are just happy it’s not them {laughing}.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, yeah, yeah!
Liz Wolfe: Tagged with the responsibility. But her favorite, favorite thing is gymnastics. She loves to practice it. She absolutely loves it. And I’m like; man if I could just steer you this way, you really just have a natural inclination for it. But it’s not up to me.
Noelle Tarr: I think she’ll gravitate towards that. And one of the things I think is really interesting about gymnastics is this idea; or even just general ninja classes. Like, little boy ninja classes or whatever. Is teaching about body awareness. And I think that actually really helped me. Because I didn’t do triathlons until I was in college. I did ballet, but I didn’t do cheerleading until I was in high school.
So it’s interesting how if you just create a solid foundation and create that variety; there’s been a lot of interesting research about kids and athletic abilities. And how narrowing the focus; so keeping the focus on just one sport, is actually a huge disservice. And you see actual kids who are really focused on; let’s say, baseball. Because that’s a big one. Or football.
When you really focus on baseball, and you only focus on that for your kid, they actually end up getting; they’re more injured and they’re not as good at the sport. Whereas if you keep it really casual and relaxed and only get specialized with exercises and movements and training specific to that sport later on. I would say, probably, 8th, 9th, 10th grade. You’ll see a greater; like stronger foundation overall. In terms of injury prevention, and being able to be successful in that sport. So I just found that really interesting.
Because it is hard as a parent. You want your kid to be good at whatever they’re doing. And honestly, I overthink those decisions. Like; I’m like; but I don’t want to make the wrong decision. What if gymnastics is her thing, and she wants to compete, and I make the wrong decision right now and move to this team or whatever.
But, kids are pretty resilient, and honestly kids with natural talent who grow up to be Olympians or whatever, it’s not the fact that they were doing this since they were 3. It’s the fact that they had a really strong foundation, and good coaching, and specialized coaching when the time was right.
Liz Wolfe: No. You’re totally right. It’s pretty dumbfounding to watch some of these older gymnasts and what they’re doing at her gymnastics place. I mean, woo. I mean, talented kids out there. Super talented kids.
- Noelle’s beginning into fitness [16:06]
Liz Wolfe: Ok, you said something just now that I want to circle back to. You talked about doing triathlons. and I just;
Noelle Tarr: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: You posted semi-recently {laughs}. You posted like a throwback on your Instagram about how you were maybe at your lowest weight, but you were maybe also at your unhealthiest.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Can you talk to me about that?
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. So I got into “fitness”; i.e., working out in the gym, when I was probably 16 or 17. I had gone through puberty, and that was the thing you do, right? You get to the gym and you get smaller because your body is changing and all of a sudden you have boobs now and that wasn’t; you learn from society that you shouldn’t be fluctuating and body changes aren’t normal. So you need to fight those.
So I got into the gym and I think; my idea was that I was really trying to. I wasn’t trying to improve; I had the focus of, I wanted aesthetic goals. But I enjoyed actually being in the gym and lifting and doing that kind of stuff. I was doing mostly elliptical work, which I did not like.
But at that gym they had a really great triathlon club, and unfortunately, as you try to get more and more extreme with exercise; which is what I did. I started using exercise as a way to “work off food”, but also just kind of manage my own personal anxieties. A lot of my anxieties around trying to keep my body the way it was. And trying to control my body and all that stuff. You look for more extreme ways, and you look for more; you have to figure out ways to workout longer. And triathlons, it’s endurance training.
Liz Wolfe: You workout longer. Mm-hmm.
Noelle Tarr: You workout longer. I loved the training, and I liked the community, but ultimately, it was a way to pacify my anxieties around my body. And so, I really; when did I start? I think I started my freshman year of college, really started doing half marathons. And my 21st birthday I did my first real half marathon. And shortly after that, then did a pretty long triathlon. It was what we’d call a half ironman. So it was manageable. It took about 6 hours. And I was kind of good at it, but I wasn’t; I won’t say I was good at it. Let’s not say that.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Noelle Tarr: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: You were able to do it.
Noelle Tarr: I was able to do it. And do it within a reasonable time. So that was fun for me. It was fun to be able to push my body and see it do new things, which I still appreciate. And I still love. However, during that time, I was nursing an injury but I was still trying to push myself. I was really treating exercise as a way to; like, I was doing the thing that a lot of women do. Which is; I’m trying to workout, and I’m trying to eat as little as possible while I’m doing it.
So nutrition, I had this obsession with nutrition and nutrition training. And I thought it was; oh, I just have a passion for it. But really it was an obsession with trying to control my food and trying to keep it as low as possible. And I got to a weight that was very small for me. Very small. And I ended up losing my period. And didn’t really think anything of it at the time. Which is crazy to me.
Liz Wolfe: Well how long did it take you to realize that you had lost your period?
Noelle Tarr: I don’t even remember; it must have been months and months went by. And I remember just being like; I mean, why did I need it anyway? At that point you’re just like; I don’t know. I had such a disconnect from evaluating my own body’s needs and understanding if I was actually dealing with health issues. I have such a better; because I have that stuff in my head gone. That constant voice in your head that you’re always beating yourself up and you’re always trying to say; ok, what can I do today to try to control my body. And how can I really make sure I’m on my diet today. And writing your stuff down.
Now that that stuff is removed from me, I have such a better grasp on what my body needs. And the red flags. And when something is about to go wrong, I can pick up on that. If I’m feeling little twinges in my knee, I can now stop that before it turns into an injury.
And if I need more sleep, I do that. And so I was trying; I was basically overriding all of these signals that my body was giving me, and ignoring things like; you’ve lost your period. You know? It was just something that was kind of an inconvenience and it didn’t matter. So I just kept doing the things.
And eventually, of course, like most people. Or most women who maybe go through this. I did come to a moment where I completely destroyed my physical health. So something in my hip, nobody even could figure out what it was. And it ultimately grounded me, so that I couldn’t use exercise to manage my anxieties and the hate that I had for my body and all that kind of stuff. And I had to really stop and deal with it.
And that kind of set me on the path, and what I do today, in trying to educate women. Because I’ve felt like; gosh. If I can save one person from going down this very long road and doing damage to themselves, potentially long-term damage, which it was for me. Then that’s worth it.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Ok, talk more about the path you’re on now. This is a big one. I want to talk about cellulite in a minute. So let’s try and get to that place at some point.
Noelle Tarr: {laughs} Ok.
Liz Wolfe: But, tell everybody the path that you’re on now.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. So, I always; once I got that injury. And I will have to credit; meeting my husband changed my ways a lot, too. But I got an injury, and I met my husband, and I remember kind of trying to challenge. Ok; something is wrong with me. How do I get out of this? Right? So clearly I don’t like my body. And I’m just; how do I heal my brain.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Noelle Tarr: How do I start liking myself. So it was just like; for me, all of a sudden I had this switch. Which was; I have to lose weight to like myself, and I have to change things about my body to like myself; to, how can I actually like myself without having to do anything.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Noelle Tarr: So I was looking at all these other; you know, I tried everything. Oh gosh, what was it at the time? There was this hilarious book. It was something Skinny something. It was this big thing going around.
Liz Wolfe: Skinny B? The vegan book?
Noelle Tarr: That might have been it. It was that, but then it was like a reverse of that. I read that for sure, and then there was something else.
Liz Wolfe: There’s Cave Women Don’t Get Fat.
Noelle Tarr: There was something about; it basically was a book about eating fat. And now I can’t; it was a huge book at the time.
Liz Wolfe: Oh, that’s going to bug me. Was it like a Sally Fallon/Mary Enig book? Was it one of those?
Noelle Tarr: No, it wasn’t. I wish it was. But it was a very traditional diet book about how you should be actually eating more fat. So I thought; maybe that’s my problem. So I started trying to incorporate good healthy fats.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. {laughs}
Noelle Tarr: And then {laughs} I got an emotional eating book. I still remember what the cover looks like. And so it was like; ok. It’s that I’m an emotional eater. I need to solve that. That’s my problem. So I just kept trying to solve my problem. Eventually, my husband. The way that he actually asked me out on a date, which wasn’t quite a date. Was; oh, I’ve been wanting to try CrossFit. Because we had both been talking about it. And he was like; well, let me get your number and we can go together. Because I was super intimidated to go into this gym alone. And I was like; ok.
Liz Wolfe: Ken seems like the connector.
Noelle Tarr: Very much so.
Liz Wolfe: He and my husband have talked. Every once in a while, he’s like; hey, Spence, Noelle and I talked about this. And he’s like; I know, Ken texted me. I’m like what? {laughing}
Noelle Tarr: {laughs} I kid you not.
Liz Wolfe: He’s like; let’s do this.
Noelle Tarr: He is the center of; he’s talking to everybody. He’s always. He’s just that guy. He knows the cashiers. By first name. You know? He just talks to everybody. But he genuinely enjoys good conversation. He loves your husband. I think. Well, not love. I think he likes him.
Liz Wolfe: I think there’s a mutual affection there. {laughs}
Noelle Tarr: OK. I think he likes him. But, I will say; he definitely yeah. He’s that guy. So he’s like; let me get your number, and we can go together. And I was like; ok. So I was going to give him a fake number. But then I was like; eh. So I gave him my number.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Noelle Tarr: We ended up going to this gym {laughs}. And that’s where I learned about paleo. Robb’s book. They knew Robb at the time. Because he was like one of three or four.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Noelle Tarr: Major CrossFit owners. This was way before CrossFit became big. And his book was on the table. And I remember kind of; it was the first time. Paleo didn’t solve my problems, but it was the first time I thought; oh, I should be. Something told me; you don’t need to be counting calories. You need to be counting nutrients. You need to focus on nutrient density. So that’s when I was like; oh!
So my body; a lot of people think you can flip a switch and start; oh, now I love my body. And it really was over the course of maybe 5 to 7 years where I had to slowly break my; I won’t say addiction, but I will say my obsession with trying to exercise every day, and work off everything that I ate, and trust the process. I kept repeating myself; Noelle, you have to trust the process. And one day; I would do my lift and then I would always do 45 minutes of cardio afterwards. I was like; I’m not doing the cardio. I’m just going to stop. I think it’s causing too much stress on my body. And it was scary, but one day I had to stop doing it, and I never did it again.
I remember constantly trying to incorporate foods. Even though I still had this propensity to kind of overeat. Because once you restrict for so long, you kind of don’t have that intuition of when am I actually full?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: You know; my body fluctuated. I gained weight, then I kind of lost weight, oddly enough, after I stopped doing the cardio. My body kind of came back to where it needed to be and where I am naturally. And over the course of that time; I don’t even know. Maybe I heard it on a podcast or something just about how maybe a little bit about body image and how that works. And I had this moment of; wow. I spent so much of my life trying to make my body to fit other people’s standards and appeal to other people. And the people who care about whether I have 6-pack abs or not, or don’t have cellulite or whatever are not people I want to be friends with anyway.
Liz Wolfe: Right.
Noelle Tarr: So I was able to step back and say; wow. So my husband doesn’t care. The person I care about most. All of my friends in my life do not care. Why do I care so much? Why am I spending so much time trying to control my body and certain things about it, aesthetic things about it? When it’s just not where my worth lies.
So, honestly, I started talking about that more on my website. I published a post called “Why I don’t want 6-pack abs.” And that was before people were really talking about that. And that’s what exploded and kind of put me on the map. And since then I’ve just kind of had these realizations, honestly. While working out, or in the shower. I do my best thinking in the shower.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} How often do you shower? {laughing}
Noelle Tarr: Not that much. I should do it more.
Liz Wolfe: Apparently so.
Noelle Tarr: It’s like; it’s my only time where I think my brain can actually just think. And I’ll come up with these revelations. And honestly, that’s where podcast answer comes from. That’s where most of my quote images for Instagram and stuff like that come from. Because I’m like; yeah. That is great!
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Noelle Tarr: All of a sudden, I just have these realizations. So sharing that and helping people navigate this space of how do I get out of putting my worth in my diet or my fitness. How do I move forward in a way that I’m able to accept? Have a good, positive body image and accept myself, but also make good decisions so that I feel really good?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. That support you physically. And mentally, too. Support your brain. Support your body.
Noelle Tarr: Right.
Liz Wolfe: I feel like I had an interesting journey around that. And when you said that it took 5-7 years, that really resonated with me. Because it was definitely a process. It feels easy; or at least 90% of the way easy now. But looking back, it really did take a long time. I think there was a time where I first kind of; I kind of had the abuse of my body and cutting calories. I remember being an intern in Washington DC and eating 6 small meals a day and literally having charts.
I’m going to share this at some point, because I found them a while back. Maybe when we were moving. So it would have been years ago. These charts; they traced every single gram of fiber, every calorie, every carb, protein, fat. Every single thing that was in my food. And I would pack them in these little Tupperware containers and bring them to work. and I would be in DC all day long. so I would go, I would workout at like 5 a.m. take the Metro in. Workout at 5 a.m. Have 4 of those little 120-calorie meals, basically, throughout the course of the day. Go back to the gym again. And then go home. And then eat nothing and go to bed.
And I have never been able to commit to anything {laughs} hardly. So I always felt like a failure because I could not continue to treat myself that way. So it would always last two, three, four weeks. This lasted probably a couple of months. And then I would massive backswing into something completely unhealthy for an entirely different reason. It was just back and forth, back and forth for a really long time.
And then, meet my husband, too. Start going to CrossFit. Learn about paleo. Start trying that out. And then you start to think about yourself a little bit differently. CrossFit; I remember I wrote a post about it. I CrossFit because I never knew what I was capable of until I started crossfitting. And you kind of get into that culture of; muscle is cool. Movement is cool.
Noelle Tarr: Right.
Liz Wolfe: Good, healthy food is what we do to support all the rest of it. You’re going to CrossFit competitions. You’re doing nutrition challenges. And it adds that aspect of community. So that kind of starts the transition.
And then you start; it was that middle space where I really remember where strong is the new skinny popped up. And I was like; this doesn’t feel right. Because I feel like if we’re always talking about something, that something is still sort of the boss of you. So skinny was still the boss of me during that time.
And then there was kind of the apologetic time. Where it was like; I’m amazing despite my cellulite. You know?
Noelle Tarr: {laughs} Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: I love myself even though I’ve got hips.
Noelle Tarr: I love your flaws.
Liz Wolfe: Love your flaws. And then eventually it got to the point where I was just like; I’m awesome. And I’ll still have those thoughts. Like; oh man. I wish. I don’t know, this is going to sound completely backwards, but I wish that saddlebag fit into those pants, because I really liked those pants. You know?
Noelle Tarr: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: But it’s fleeting. It’s fleeting. And it’s ok to think; man. I look like crap today. Because sometimes we all feel and look like crap. And I think that’s fine. It’s a matter of whether you dwell on it for more than 30 seconds. You know?
Noelle Tarr: Exactly.
- Dialing in on a healthy relationship [31:48]
Liz Wolfe: Once you can get to the point where you can think those things and move on, quickly, and not steep yourself in it all day long, all week long, or whatever it is. I think that’s a big moment. At least it was for me. What do you think about that? What’s that end point of feeling like; you’ve got it dialed in. Where you really have a healthy relationship with your body. And what do you think healthy expectations are for that?
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. It’s so interesting now being on the other side of two kids. Three years postpartum, I kind of am having a totally different relationship and experience. Which is; things happened to my body over the course of the last few years. And I do love where I’m at; which is, I don’t have to love certain things about my body. Before kids, I could say; and I can say that now. But I would say; I love my body. I love all that my body is able to do, etc., etc. And that’s great. Wonderful, Noelle.
But like now; I can look. I stretched a lot. My stretch marks; {laughs} I have a lot of stretch marks.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Noelle Tarr: And it really happened with my second kid, who was a pound bigger than my first. And I was 41 weeks. You know. He’s just big. And now that my body is back to, or has shifted back to where it’s comfortable. There are a lot of squiggles. Do I love that? I’m like; oh my god, Noelle. You’ve got to get this place where you just love it. And I’m like; no I don’t. I can acknowledge it and say, cool. I don’t really love it. And I don’t have to. But that doesn’t mean that I have to do anything about it. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Right.
Noelle Tarr: It doesn’t have to control my actions, what I choose to do for food, or fitness. I don’t need to spend money on creams or whatever. I can move on with my day. So it might come; you know. It’s pool season. I got some cute swimsuits. I really do like some of my one-pieces, which I never thought I would say that. But they’re so…
Liz Wolfe: They’re making them cute nowadays.
Noelle Tarr: Oh my gosh, they’re so cute. But they make you feel like; the way that some of them are now are just high fashion feeling. So, I really dig that.
Liz Wolfe: {Laughs}
Noelle Tarr: {laughs} I do. I just do.
Liz Wolfe: Do they have any butt coverage? Can you just tell me?
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Where are you finding the butt coverage? There is no butt coverage, anywhere!
Noelle Tarr: You said you had this brand. What’s it called? Albion Fit. You said you had that bathing suit. Remember, with the flowers, and it’s like sheer up here.
Liz Wolfe: The flowers. No, that’s your bathing suit.
Noelle Tarr: It is, but I thought you said you had that?
Liz Wolfe: No. No. I have a swimsuit from Albion Fit.
Noelle Tarr: Ok. Then get that one. Because that one has really good butt coverage.
Liz Wolfe: OK. I’ll get that one.
Noelle Tarr: I have a bubble back there. So it’s good. And you have to try on and find. Some things from that brand are not, but that one is really good.
Liz Wolfe: Yes. Well, I think one of my problems is that I am just tall. And if the torso is too short in a one piece, it will just immediately pull everything right up the beastie. Right up the butt crack.
Noelle Tarr: Yes. That makes sense.
Liz Wolfe: And I don’t; you know, I don’t like boy shorts. People say boy shorts are full coverage!
Noelle Tarr: God, no.
Liz Wolfe: I’m like; no. They cut you off right at the most uncomfortable spot. And then they’re either tucking themselves up. There is a level of functionality. There are challenges of functionality to my body in the shape that it is. I’m not saying that to say I hate my body, or there is something wrong with it. But I expanded in places where we have little hang-ups. Where you can’t keep the stuff below the flesh, and then it ends up tucking itself up above the little line of flesh. And then it’s extremely uncomfortable. And then you’ve got thigh rub, even worse. And so there are; I hate that. I hate boy shorts, or whatever you call them now. I also don’t really like the high waisted stuff. I want an old-school, low rise, full rear coverage. And then maybe like a half tankini. Where are the tankinis?
Noelle Tarr: You know, it sounds like you should wear a pair of underwear. I feel like all these underwear fits like that.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing} Exactly!
Noelle Tarr: Like the briefs.
Liz Wolfe: The briefs!
Noelle Tarr: The briefs fit exactly like that.
Liz Wolfe: I’ve thought about it, man. I just; this is so pathetic. I have all these drawers in my closet that are full of swimsuits, because I’ve tried so many over the years. And I’m so bad about sending things back. And they design it that way. They don’t want you to send it back. They make it difficult. But I was trying to close this drawer; I was like, why can’t I close it? It’s because like 6 years’ worth of swimsuits had fallen behind the drawer. Of swimsuits that I do not wear.
I do like my Kiava. We both have a Kiava! That’s what we both have. That’s what we both have. We both have that one shoulder from Kiava.
Noelle Tarr: It’s really pretty.
Liz Wolfe: I like theirs. It’s very pretty. They have some briefs that I really like, but they don’t have them in colors that I want. Yadda, yadda. Anyway.
Somebody tell me about a brand that really has full rear coverage without being a boy short, and I will send you something that you want. A signed copy of my book. You probably don’t want that. But truly, somebody find it for me.
All these bathing suits, too. Nowadays; I mean, my butt eats them so quickly.
Noelle Tarr: I know.
Liz Wolfe: or would eat them so quickly. And I totally got us off track here, but I’m going to bring us to another place really quick. Or maybe not really quick. It’s very interesting to me, because it’s a functional issue for me, looking at some of these swimsuits that are literally half thongs. I don’t understand how they stay where they’re supposed to stay. I don’t think they do. Constantly probably picking them out of there.
But I also notice the young folks; the young girls, with all different types of bodies wearing them. Which I’m like; rock on.
Noelle Tarr: I know.
Liz Wolfe: You know? I mean, I think maybe there’s something shifting in this generation. Because some of them are wearing clothes that I never would have felt I was “allowed” to wear.
Noelle Tarr: No. And we actually weren’t. I mean, if you go back and look at the style trends and what was going on in the late 90s and early 2000s; we did not have the body acceptance and sort of this; I don’t know. I feel like younger girls are a little bit more; they’re more like, people embrace diversity a little bit more. Body diversity. And I see that with just girls who are proud to wear the shorts and the tops that they want to.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: I love that. And I think that all the time, too. Because I keep seeing at the pool teenagers wearing all these cute bathing suits; and I’m like; back then we really had, it was like two options. You wore like string bikinis. Or you wore one pieces.
Liz Wolfe: yeah.
Noelle Tarr: There was no high waisted, and full. There was not. It was so hard to find full coverage. I remember because I’ve always had a big butt. I remember even when I was like 15 or 16, I had to go to Dillard’s. And there was one bathing suit. And it was so expensive for me. It was like 40 bucks each. You know, each.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: And my mom was like; you cannot buy that. So I had to save up from when I was working. I was working at Fergie’s Dairy. It was an ice cream shop. And I eventually got it. But it was a department store bathing suit that had a thicker and fuller coverage in the back. And that’s why I had to get this more expensive bathing suit. Because if you went to Target, or wherever else, all of it was like string bikinis!
Liz Wolfe: Wet Seal. Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. So tiny. So I love that there’s more diversity. But that doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily is always going to work perfectly. Which, it’s a struggle.
Liz Wolfe: Right up the tushie.
- Diet culture and shame [39:35]
Noelle Tarr: But you don’t have to blame yourself, you know. And I think, taking it back to cellulite. You can look in the mirror; I think women now are hopefully not blaming themselves for things not fitting or working perfectly. And yeah, I have a lot of stretch marks. And yeah, I have cellulite. But I’m now in a place where I don’t feel like I have to love that. I don’t blame myself. And I can move on with my day. I can go to the pool.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: And I think that’s really; when you can come to that place where you don’t carry shame with you. So many women carry shame with them throughout the day. It starts in the morning. It may start on the scale. It starts with the first look in the mirror. And it’s exhausting to have to give those thoughts real estate in your head. Because that goes with you throughout the entire day. And as you know, then you start making decisions based on that. So are you going to take your coverup off and enjoy the pool with your kids? Are you going to try to push yourself a little extra at your workout? Are you going to; oh, I think I’m going to restrict and not eat too many carbs today. I’m going to skip the potatoes.
So it’s just; you’re constantly in this restrictive mentality carrying that shame with you. So the freedom that comes from not having to spend so much time thinking about that and burdening yourself with that allows you to really assess; ok, what’s going to make me feel good today? What does my body actually need? What kind of exercise, what kind of movement do I need; or lack thereof. What food is going to nourish my body today, and you can make decisions from that place, as opposed to always trying to think; ok, how can I control my body?
And that, to me, is health. That is having a good relationship with your body, and saying; how can I bring myself health today. Because as you know, health is not just weight. Health is not just calories. And that’s been perpetuated year after year by diet culture. And it’s still popular, even though you and I, I’m sure, have unfollowed most sources.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Noelle Tarr: {laughs} Of that information. It’s still the prevalent thought process out there. Which is; health is calories. You need to cut your calories. Whereas it’s really your sleep. It’s your digestion. It’s hormones. It’s your nutrient status. It’s your mental health. It’s all those things. So, yeah.
Liz Wolfe: What I’ve noticed now, too, is that; I think it’s generally accepted that these things. Generally accepted within a certain group of people that these things are not productive. They should not be spoken. So what I mean by that is; a lot of “fitness influencers” are really on the train of; I love myself, even though I can’t get rid of this pooch. Or, you know, I’m mom strong, or whatever it is. And the imagery is a very lean person. We don’t know whether their habits or healthy or not healthy. But it’s the images.
It’s like; I don’t have to say you should diet. I don’t have to say you should work out more. I don’t have to say you’re not working hard enough. But you see it in this picture of me. Right? I’m this fitness influencer at an extreme level of leanness, potentially not menstruating. Probably counting, weighing, and measuring a lot. Which maybe some people find a lot of balance and a lot of comfort in weighing and measuring; I don’t. It’s a slippery slope, I think, for me and for a lot of people. But you scroll through, and there is still that comparison game of like; maybe this person is not telling me I need to do something unhealthy. But the image and the comparison of myself to this person is unhealthy for me.
Noelle Tarr: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: And I see that a lot. The comparison game. And I think it’s very interesting. And I feel like just in the last couple of years, I’ve gotten to the point where I’m not comparing anymore. Not only do I appreciate my body and not only am I able to not dwell on those little moments that we talked about earlier. But I also don’t feel that impulse. That subconscious impulse to compare myself to anyone else.
And I am also comfortable saying; I don’t know what that person’s life looks like. What they’re presenting might be aligned, it might not be aligned. And I feel comfortable also appreciating beauty in all it’s forms, without feeling like; well, why don’t I look like that? Or why aren’t I more like that? Should I be more like that? No. I can appreciate something that may or may not; it doesn’t have to be a universal standard of beauty. But maybe if I feel like; I’m way, going way off on a tangent here.
But if I feel like; what’s that Tom Brady’s wife’s name? {laughs}
Noelle Tarr: Giselle. Right?
Liz Wolfe: Ok. I think she’s a very beautiful human being. That does not mean I feel like I’m supposed to look like her. It doesn’t mean I feel like she is the standard against which all of us should weigh ourselves. Weigh; compare ourselves to. And I think there’s beauty in so many different forms. We can find it. We can appreciate it. More conventional standards. More unconventional standards of beauty. And we can appreciate it without comparing ourselves to it. Does that make sense?
Noelle Tarr: Oh 100%. Yeah. I think that is a place you can; once you get to that place, I think it’s really healthy. And also, you have to remember. I know both of us see this, because this is some of the stuff that we talk about in our offline chat. People know how to sell. People know how to manipulate. So when you’re seeing posts like that of; this is a healthy body, but this is also a healthy body. And it’s like; somebody sitting upright, and kind of doing the Instagram post. And then somebody sitting hunched over, and they have “stomach rolls”.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Noelle Tarr: You’re like; both look like a really lean fitness model to me. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Mmmm-hmm.
Noelle Tarr: But they’re trying to capitalize on this idea that is becoming more popular, which is you can be healthy in a variety of weights. And people are obviously more accepting. There’s a lot of chatter about body acceptance and all that kind of stuff. And yeah, trying to make changes from self-hate is just not going to work. And thin is not better.
So I think people are trying to capitalize on that a lot. So we also have to be careful of that. because even companies are trying to market products with; love yourself with my product. You know? {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: But get to the place where you really love your strong body, and finally be happy with our diet shakes.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Noelle Tarr: It’s like; what? So we just have to be very aware of that too. And I love being in a place where I can see that for what it is, and not let it affect me. But be able to call it out and say; ok, this is what this is doing. I don’t have to believe it and/or engage with it.
- Women’s bodies and cellulite [46:36]
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. So you were recently on the Model Health show. Right? With Shaun. And you talked about cellulite. And this clip was like the clip hear round the world.
Noelle Tarr: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: And I thought it was so good. And I just wanted you to recreate that magic for my podcast, please {laughs}. But you were talking a little bit about; whether this matters or not, how our tissue is constructed. I think it’s interesting. I think it is interesting to understand the physiology of our terrain as women, and understand why it makes sense that maybe our texture looks different from our husband’s texture.
So what did you explain there about the way our tissue is actually constructed?
Noelle Tarr: Yeah, I love it too because I do feel like when you can actually look at our physiology, it gives you a little bit more of an objective perspective.
Liz Wolfe: Yes.
Noelle Tarr: We grew up thinking cellulite equals bad. And oh you’re fat, with the connotation of that being bad. So now, as an adult, we can come back and say; let’s look at what this really is, and why it’s there. And why everybody is always Googling; why don’t men have cellulite? They do. We don’t see it. And it’s for a good reason. You know? {laughs} I don’t know good or bad, it’s just for a normal reason.
So, cellulite is interesting for women. And again, it’s fascinating because it has something to do with how our skin and our connective tissue is formed. Women have thinner skin in comparison to men, for one. Also, we have a different way our connective tissue is set. So if you were to Google men versus women, connective tissue, what you’d see is that standard depiction of the different layers of skin and you would also see this, how our connective tissue goes up and down. It’s like parallel; if you were to look at a woman’s connective tissue, it kind of just looks like a number of straight up and down lines. Whereas with men, it’s a bunch of Xs.
So with women, because our skin is both thinner and our connective tissue allows for more space, for those fat cells to be pushed through. We also have weaker connective tissue overall. You see it more. That’s really all it is. Interestingly enough, men have that connective tissue. They also have thicker skin. And their skin is also more oily. Which is why they don’t get as many wrinkles.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Noelle Tarr: Thank you.
Liz Wolfe: So use your serums, ladies. Just kidding. I’m just kidding.
Noelle Tarr: I am not. Use your serums. Moisturize!
Liz Wolfe: Or your oils. Use your skin care oils. Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: Also, men have more testosterone. Testosterone actually supports protein production, and women estrogen really actually supports fat storage. And also women, and this is no surprise. Women carry weight more. Whereas men, when they gain weight, they carry it in their belly, or that’s just where more of their weight is. But with women, it’s thighs and butt.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Noelle Tarr: So it’s just; that’s where we carry our weight. It’s not a bad thing. It’s just simple facts about our skin and our connective tissue. If you look at the literature, there is no connection between cellulite and health issues.
Liz Wolfe: Ah.
Noelle Tarr: Can we glean some information of what might create cellulite, and/or make it worse? Yeah. There might be some lack of blood flow. That could be a thing. It may be poor diet. It might be because of lack of collagen. There are things that can make cellulite worse. It’s not going to solve it. It’s not going to take it away.
And honestly; when you post about cellulite, you will always have people who comment and say; oh, cellulite is stored toxins.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Noelle Tarr: Also a myth. Not a real thing.
Liz Wolfe: That is exactly what the Charles Poliquin team said to me and Diane Sanfilippo when we got our Poliquin biosignature certifications.
Noelle Tarr: {gasp}
Liz Wolfe: That’s exactly what they said! And it was a full on, let me pinch that with calipers, everybody take your shirts off. And I was like; why are we here? We looked at each other and we were like; what is this? But at the time, there were like 3 certs. And we wanted to be well versed in a variety of different ways of thinking {laughs}. And that was just a moment for both of us, I think. Where we were like; eff this. Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: I love Charles Poliquin, too. I love some of his fitness stuff. Obviously, he missed the mark on that. Or his certification team did. Because men are actually; when you look at men and their diets and also their tobacco use, they actually have poor diet and they use tobacco and smoke more than women. So, women are not more toxic. We’re not holding more toxins. It’s not a real thing.
So it’s not the fact that you’re taking in too many toxins. It’s not that, you know. It’s really just something very simple about our physical structure. And it’s not correlated with any health condition. If it’s not a problem for you, it’s not a problem. You can choose to improve lymphatic flow. You can choose to do cupping, like when I talked about cellulite people come on there and they’re like; oh, it’s because of lack of blood flow and stored toxins and you really need to try cupping. There you go; the person, that’s what they do for a living. Great. Cool. Try your cupping. But it’s not necessary. It’s not a problem that you have to solve.
Liz Wolfe: Right.
Noelle Tarr: If you don’t want to solve it, you don’t have to. If you want to improve lymphatic flow, if you want to do the cupping, awesome. And a lot of the lymphatic massage; you know, even with gua sha. What is working is it’s reducing a lot of the water. So it might work temporarily, just like gua sha on your face works temporarily. It’s not going to fix the underlying structure of your body.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Noelle Tarr: So I think that once we can really understand that, we can say; oh. It’s not a problem. It’s not something that’s wrong with me. It’s very genetic, too, honestly.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, yeah. It is, in my family, for sure.
Noelle Tarr: There’s nothing; you don’t have to, again, carry the shame and the weight of; oh, I can’t wear these shorts. Or, oh gosh these people. Nobody is looking at your cellulite, because they’ve got it too. I think like 80% of women have it. Nobody is looking at your dimples. It’s really not…
Liz Wolfe: They’re only thinking about themselves and what other people might be thinking when they look at them. Yep. Yep.
Noelle Tarr: 100%.
Liz Wolfe: That’s all of us. For sure. You know, I went to; years ago, I started going to endermology. Which is marketed as a way to reduce cellulite. But I think it started out as a post-surgical, post maybe liposuction healing modality to help bring circulation to the area. Then it started to be marketed as a tool for cellulite reduction; a manual tool. It’s kind of got the cupping suction and some rolling and all types of stuff.
And I went originally because I wanted to reduce my cellulite. And it didn’t do anything. But I loved the circulation boost so much. And my recovery from exercise was so enhanced by it. That I continued to go. Not during pregnancy, and not immediately postpartum. But now I go back every couple of weeks. And it’s like, shocking to people that I’m not doing it for cellulite reduction. But it really is.
I mean, there are many reasons to improve circulation. Whether that’s through exercise or some kind of physical modality, like cupping or lymph massage or gua sha or whatever it is. It’s a great thing to do. So if you see benefits from that outside of just the changing of a physical characteristic that actually has no bearing on your quality of life; go for it. But that preoccupation; like you were saying before. The lotions and the potions. The money spent. The preoccupation. All of that. It is a waste of life.
Noelle Tarr: Well, it’s a waste of money, too. You know? That shame; it sells. When you feel really horrible about something, something about your body. you will spend an enormous amount of time. I mean, look at the amount of money that people spend on just simple things like that. I mean, {laughs} this is a whole industry. Out in California; not so much as popular here. But just all the things to help “improve” fat loss, or spot reduce fat loss. Improve cellulite and all the things. Because we’ve made it such a thing that you need to feel shame for.
And largely, that’s the media. But it’s also the marketing of these products. That’s; this is diet culture at it’s core. Is telling you; there’s something wrong with you. There’s a problem, and it needs to be fixed, and you need to try our product or spend money on our product to fix that.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Buy it now. Buy it now. It’s that whole culture. Ok. Well, I’ve kept you for an hour already, and I know we’re really good at talking for long periods of time. I think we’ve probably done that; we’ve probably hit the time limit on Voxer multiple times.
Noelle Tarr: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: But I could talk to you all day. And I probably will, off of the air. But thank you so much for coming on today and chatting with me about all this. Where can everybody find you?
Noelle Tarr: Yeah. CoconutsandKettlebells.com and my podcast is Well-fed Women, which I have a recent episode with Liz and I where we talk about modern motherhood and fitness and raising confident daughters and all that stuff. It was a great episode.
Liz Wolfe: It was great. Alright my dear. I’ll talk to you offline. Bye.
