Liz Talks Podcast, Episode 17: Breastfeeding & Cow’s Milk, Simplifying Life, and Tongue Tie Stress!

Liz talks breastfeeding, introducing cow’s milk, and being “brilliant” at some very specific “basics,” including skincare (no, you don’t need a 9-step regimen). Then, she gripes about the stressful tongue tie release process.


Liz Talks

This is episode 17, topics: breastfeeding & cow’s milk, simplifying life, and tongue tie stress.

In case you missed it, episode 16 was all about Hair!

  • Electrolysis versus laser
  • Henna
  • Eyelash growth

Today, I’ll talk about:

  • My extended breastfeeding journey, and address a listener question about cow’s milk
  • I’ll give my tips for being brilliant at some very specific basics.
  • And I’ll go on a little rant about tongue tie stress.
  • Plus, I’m back with a weekly overshare.

Before we begin, a few quick notes. As with most Saturdays, over the weekend we enjoyed our Saturday morning pancake ritual with Arrowhead Mills buttermilk pancake mix. Which, as I said last time, is the mix I’ve been using for as long as I can remember. This Saturday felt like a really big milestone, though, because my 7-year-old made her own pancake mix and her own pancakes start to finish, and actually came up with something that tasted pretty good.

And I’d like to pat myself on the back a bit, because this was a total homeschool-type win that I would have loved to have when we were actually homeschooling. The Arrowhead Mills mix is so simple, you just add a few additional ingredients. And it’s really forgiving. So it was a perfect moment to let her read the instructions, measure out the ingredients, and use the griddle like the freaking teenager she thinks she is! So, I appreciate the way Arrowhead Mills made that moment possible, and I also appreciate them for supporting my work.

So, please. I’d love to have you support them in turn. Look for Arrowhead Mills mixes and organic flours at the health food store, or search them on And if you do buy; please, take a picture. Put it up on Instagram and tag me, because I would love to see.

I’m also excited to update folks on the old Balanced Bites podcast crew. I had some questions come in during my ask me anything episode a few episodes back about whether or not Diane and I were still connected. And, yes, we are! So we actually talked the other day and decided that we were going to record an update episode for our old Balanced Bites podcast subscribers. So if you are subscribed to the podcast, you’re going to get that in your subscription feed here in; I’m not exactly sure when it’s going to be published. But you’ll see it, and I will let everybody know through my newsletter, Instagram, and here on this podcast when that’s ready to go.

So we’re just going to hop on a quick podcast together, and give some updates on what’s going on in our lives, and future projects, and all that good stuff. So that should be fun.

Ok. Onto the show. I had a few reader questions come in, and I’m going to sort of amalgamate them with questions that I commonly get on my Instagram and via email. So we’ll kind of mash those together and answer them at the same time. Now remember; subscribers can ask me anything and I’m including the link to do that at the end of every email now. So go to to get those emails. And you too can ask me any questions you like.

Ok first up, going to talk about breastfeeding in general. And I’m not going to give a ton of tips. I’m not going to give a ton of education. I’m just going to talk about my experience, some of my choices, and I hope that some of it is interesting.

So one of the questions was; “Can you talk about your extended breastfeeding journey?” And I don’t honestly know if what I have done qualifies as extended breastfeeding. I guess it does, technically. But both of my girls; well. {laughs} There’s a little bit of a story around this. But my first daughter weaned herself probably between 18 months to a year. So we just kind of went for it, and tapered off at the point she was ready.

Now, my second daughter. I’ve felt a little more; not free because that implies that I didn’t feel free with my first. But a little bit less anxious about the breastfeeding journey. About needing to be with her at all times to be sure that that journey continued. I’ve sort of just felt like I could trust it. Like she was going to breastfeed as much as she wanted to breastfeed, and when she was ready to stop, then she would stop.

So, I’ve gone on a couple of trips. A girl’s trip, and a couple of other overnights, things like that, where I’ve just chosen not to worry about it, and just had faith that when I came back, if she still wanted to nurse then we would continue nursing. She’s about a year and a half now.

One of those trips was; oh, hmm. At least four days. Another one was maybe three or four days. One was a girls trip; one was to go visit family where I left the baby at home with my husband. And always coming back, we’d pick right back up where we left off. So it’s gone on longer than I actually thought it would. Especially since around a year, I felt like she was really starting to lose interest. That she just wasn’t that into it. So I thought; ok, maybe this is the end of it.

And there was actually about a week or so where she really wasn’t nursing much at all. And that was around the time; some of you might remember, and some of you may have alarm bells going off about this. That was around the time that I went and got Botox. And I talked about that in a previous episode. And I was just thinking; ok. If we’re done, I know this person that does it. I’ll go get it done and we’ll do it. No big deal. Because, to be honest, I was a little bit excited about doing that, once I was done nursing. So as soon as the signs were there, I decided to go for it.

Well, I still wasn’t 100% wanting to just let it dry up. So after Botox, I did pump a little bit just to keep that stimulation going. And it’s funny, because she must have known. She actually wanted to start nursing a lot more frequently after that. So we sort of reinitiated; or, I don’t know, intensified our breastfeeding habits after that point. Which is totally fine. It has been good. There are days when I do feel like I’m ready to be done. Because; and this should probably go in my overshare section. {laughs} But this second daughter is a pincher. She’s a nipple pincher. And my first daughter was like; when she would nurse, she was so sweet. She would just stroke my chest, and it felt so nice, and it was just all very sweet and darling. This one is a little bit more of a bruiser. About everything, but in particular also about nursing.

So, I feel like we’re kind of in phase 2 of the journey. I kind of thought it was wrapping up, and then it seemed like it just accelerated again. So I’m going with it, and I’ll reevaluate around the time she’s 2. It might be with this one that I’m the one that feels ready to stop. But at the same time, with all the uncertainty in the world, and all the illness that hit our family this winter, I feel like maybe I keep going for as long as she wants to. I don’t really know.

One thing that I do a lot less once my kids get out of the exclusively breastfeeding phase is I don’t do as much breastfeeding in public or breastfeeding on demand; whatever that means. I’ve talked about this in previous episodes. But does breastfeeding on demand mean any time they’re having an emotional melt down and they’re demanding it? Or does it mean when it’s appropriate. And not appropriate as in, don’t get naked in public. But, when you both have a mutual desire and mutual ability to do it without too much hassle, distraction, and inconvenience.

I do think, after about 6 months, that’s an appropriate thing to consider. If you’re out in the middle of the store, and kid is losing their mind, and you’re not comfortable just sitting down in the middle of the linoleum and whipping out your boob; that’s cool. I feel like it’s totally fine to just take a beat and say; we don’t need this right now. Finish what you’re doing, and then feed the baby after that. Now, of course that’s not always possible. And sometimes, to avoid a meltdown in certain situations, you want to whip that boob out, and that’s great too. It’s just entirely your call.

But for me, and my journey, when I know. Especially after they’re a little bit older. When I know it is not a life or death situation in the moment, I will often sort of, you know, ask them to wait and basically fulfill that need at a time, not too far off, but at a time that’s more convenient that feels better for me. So, you know, at a certain point, it is all about them. But there is that transition, for me personally, where I feel comfortable saying; we’re going to wait on that. We’re not going to do that right now. So that’s kind of my “extended breastfeeding” thoughts, for at least where we are in the journey right now.

So, whether or not I pump when away from the baby; if I’m going to be away for two days, three days; I really haven’t made the effort to pump. When I was away for four on the girl’s trip to Florida. It was like four-plus days; I did pump. And I felt good about that. But as I kind of tested that more and more; a couple of times I left overnight. Once or twice I left for two nights, whether for work or for pleasure. And noted that it really wasn’t a problem coming back and starting up again. That’s when I started to kind of just leave the pump behind.

I am going on a trip here coming up at the beginning of April. And I do think I will get one of those handheld pumps. I don’t expect to get anything out of it, but since it’s so evident to me that my daughter is not done after all, I actually think I might like to just give myself a little bit of that stimulation. Just to double check to make sure that I come back and we’re able to continue the journey seamlessly.

I don’t know, I’m not a lactation consultant. My friend, Liz, actually is so I probably will ask her. I don’t know if it will actually do the job, but it kind of sounds like a good idea to me. Not necessarily to bank any milk to send home, but just to make sure that I get a little bit of that stimulation while I’m gone.

Now, some other components to this question, and also questions I’ve gotten elsewhere, is whether I keep taking prenatals during my nursing journey. I am very accountable to that in the first 6 months or so, when all of baby’s nutrition is coming from me. But I do end up getting a little bit more lax about it as time goes on; in part because I don’t like swallowing prenatals. In part because the prenatal I choose; the serving size is like 6 per day. I really like the Seeking Health prenatal. It’s got choline, it’s got a good amount of B-vitamins, it’s got iodine. And I just like the company’s supplements in general. I’ve done really well with them. But after about 6 months, I’m a little bit less accountable, and a little bit less consistent about it.

I would like to be, in general. When I’m not nursing, I cycle on and off of supplements. I don’t take anything every single day for the most part. But I think during the nursing journey, it’s a good thing to sort of try to stay accountable to that.

And one solution that I just came up with for myself is actually; if I don’t like taking 6 per day, then at least maybe take something that’s a one-a-day, where maybe I wouldn’t get as many nutrients from it, but at least would serve to fill in some gaps.

One of the things I really like to do when nursing, though, is to drink raw milk. And I know not everyone tolerates milk, but I tolerate it really well. And I feel like it’s a good, concentrated source of really easy to digest nutrients for me. And in turn, I feel like it kind of helps me out in that journey. Not only with hydration as well, but with minerals, with calcium, with all of those things that I need in easily digestible form. So we have a wonderful CSA that we belong to called Moxie Farms. And that’s where we get our raw milk from. I know not everybody has access to that, but it’s been a really great thing for me. And I also drank it while I was pregnant.

So on the topic of cow’s milk, another question I get fairly frequently is whether or not introducing cow’s milk or some kind of animal milk is necessary once you’re no longer breastfeeding. And of course this won’t shock anybody, but it really depends on the situation. It depends on when you stop nursing. It depends on what the baby is eating. And it probably depends on what the baby wants, and of course, what the baby can tolerate.

I personally did not ever introduce milk to my first. But we did do cheese, yogurt, cottage cheese, and different raw milk products for her. But I didn’t necessarily do that for the calcium. I do think when kiddos eat a “well balanced” diet. They’re willing to eat vegetables. They’re willing to eat some of that weird stuff. You know; sardines with those easily dissolvable bones in them. Things like that. They’ll get what they need. And especially if you’re still nursing as baby transitions. But it depends sort of what time of life you make that decision.

For example, if my babies weaned themselves around 6 months, I might have thought about adding some kind of formula blend. There are several raw milk formula recipes out there. I think maybe you can find the full kit for at least one of them at Radiant Life. Or maybe it’s Radiant Life Catalog. I can’t exactly remember. But it has all of the different ingredients you need to make a raw milk formula type of thing.

But I sort of felt good about things, just starting in on cheese and yogurt and some raw milk products while I was still nursing and introducing solids. So that’s just how we’ve handled it. And I’ve actually offered some raw milk to baby number 2 a couple of times, and she just doesn’t seem interested. So I go with that. I do think there is a kind of innate wisdom that children have about what they need to eat; especially before they’ve been introduced to all the fun stuff, like donuts and Cheerios. I act like I haven’t introduced my second one to Cheerios.

Anyway, moving on. Finally, once you want to move away from bottles and/or introduce some kind of cup for baby to drink out of. Now, we’ve kind of run the gamut. My second drinks from the; gosh, what are they? OXO, I can’t remember. But they’re basically like sippy cups that they have to clamp down on the edges of them to enable the flow of the water into their mouths. And it has something to do with being more mechanically appropriate, better for jaw development. And the brand name is escaping me, so you’ll have to forgive me. But we also have used Pura water bottles. And I’ll need to share about those eventually. Share a picture, share a link, or something like that. But they’re stainless steel, silicone. They seem pretty legit. We try to stay away from anything plastic; even plastic straws if we can help it.

I really have come to believe that exposure to plastics; anything. Water that touches the plastic, food that touches the plastic, actually is a pretty decent source of toxicants; toxins in our food supply. So we do try to avoid that as much as we can, and opt for stainless steel and as little plastic as possible. So that’s been our tactic there.

Ok, next up I want to talk about this concept at being brilliant at the basics. And this is something I talked about with Britni Briney when she came on the show. That one of the things that Nick, my personal trainer and Brit’s husband, talks about is being brilliant at the basics. Now, I don’t think that Nick came up with that. Although, I don’t doubt that he would have or could have. But I think he might have gotten from elsewhere. And I apologize for not having that information handy. So hopefully I’m not trespassing on somebody’s intellectual property here.

But the idea of being brilliant at the basics really, really resonates with me. I think it’s a fantastic idea, because many of us get lost in the latest thing that we’re supposed to be worried about. Or the latest eating trend that’s supposed to fix XY and Z. And I can look in my own life and go through how many of those I’ve tried. Right? In my life I would do keto/Atkins. Drinking a gallon of water a day. Only drinking broth. All kinds of different things. Drink all the broth that you possibly can. All that type of stuff.

So there’s a lot of things you can kind of get lost in, and lose the forest for the trees. So this idea of being brilliant at the basics is something I come back to quite frequently lately. It’s an idea I really appreciate. So I’m going to give a few of my top tips for being brilliant at the basics. And I’ll go through beauty, lifestyle and home, food, and; well, we’ll just start there.

So as far as beauty goes; being brilliant at the basics. This is just what has worked for me. I love, love, love skincare products. I love nerding out on different skincare active ingredients that work for different issues. So whether you come to me and ask me about rosacea, jawline acne, blackheads in the T-zone; any of that. I love researching the different kind of active ingredients often derived from nature. I love green tea extract, vitamin C. Different acids. All of these things that are derived from the natural world but are standardized and purified to give us maximum impact for the minimum investment. Love that; love that so much.

So I’ve kind of gotten lost in that in the past. Where I’m going to add green tea extract to this; I’m going to add aloe to this. You can do this, this, and this. Use that product then, and this product now. Forgetting, through my buying skincare actives and buying skincare product frenzy, that I hardly ever am accountable to doing any of that. It’s just not the stage of life for me. Right now, I need simple, basic, maximum impact.

So, if I were to talk to somebody who is looking for brilliant at the basics beauty advice, I would say; either A) buy a really expensive product that does basically anything you could ever hope for all in one shot. And for me that would be the placenta stem cell cream from Chara Omni. Which is really great, and really expensive. It’s a real treat for me to get that one, so I try and stretch it out from holiday to birthday to holiday.

Or, if you want to do something more budget friendly, my top advice would be; oil cleanse. It takes so little effort, it’s so affordable. Now, I will say; since I started talking about oil cleansing like 10 years ago, the oil cleansing marked has exploded. Or at least it seems that way to me. So there are tons of awesome oil cleansing blends out there. There’s an amazing one from Tula. There’s a great one from Beautycounter. And there are a couple of others out there that I love.

But, for affordability and moisturizing and doing all of these things at once for a really good price; just oil cleans with some jojoba oil. Not “jo-joba” oil. Jojoba oil. A little dab of castor oil mixed in. Oil cleanse with that. use a nice, soft wash cloth that’s not going to pull and tug on your skin. And then moisturize with the jojoba oil. There are other oils that work well for this that I have liked in the past. Like sweet almond oil. And they’re so readily available now. They didn’t used to be. But now they are. So if that’s all you got; just do that. It’s really simple. It’s really easy. And it does have a really big impact.

Ok, the next brilliant basics is home and cleaning. Now, I can’t say I’m great about this. I actually use some Norwex cloths. And I can’t even remember why. I bought them to support a friend at one point. And I’ve not, in many, many years, actually gone over the benefits of using Norwex. I buy from her, I have some Norwex cloths, so I oftentimes just wipe my countertops, for example. Just with water, using a Norwex cloth. I’ve done the steam mop for some of my floors; which I feel like probably works well. But if I were to really focus in on this, I would probably just use vinegar with a couple of drops of lemon or citrus essential oil.

The other options I really like are Branch Basics. And there’s this; well, maybe it’s not new, but it’s new to me, Force of Nature. Which is a really interesting concept, where you combine a couple of ingredients in this thing that I think shocks them, basically, and creates; I might butcher this, but hypochloric acid, which actually disinfects and cleans really well, without any dangerous chemicals or anything that’s concerning for the baby to get ahold of. So I really like that idea too, and I think I’ll probably check that out sooner than later.

Ok; brilliant at the basics food edition. These are my thoughts. And this is something we actually folded, in part, into the Athletic Mom program, with the idea of helping people get the most bang for their buck out of their meals while also eliminating expensive wasteful snacking.

So for food; my thoughts are, have three meals that you love, and can make by heart, and double batch them all at once. Make sure they’re protein rich, and good as leftovers. And also eat enough at your meals so you don’t need to snack. Maybe that means you have four meals a day. And when I do that, I usually wake up, eat something I really love, like Greek yogurt with berries and honey. And then I have “real breakfast”, when everybody gets up and I’m fixing food. And then finally once everybody is done eating, I’ll eat my food. And oftentimes that’s eggs; an omelet.

I love breakfast burritos. Yes, I said burritos, with the wrap. Putting together; I’m on a quest to find the perfect breakfast burrito, and I haven’t found one, so now I’m trying to make it myself. But shredded potatoes from the freezer, mixed with eggs, bacon, and cheese. Super filling. Easily tides me over until lunch so I don’t feel snacky. I’m not spending a bunch of money, and creating a bunch of single use trash by snacking all day long.

So then lunch will be something like a huge scoop of chicken salad. Something that has some carbs and fat in there, too. So the curry chicken salad from the Athletic Mom recipe book is like; a mound of chicken with golden raisins and carrots; so you get some veggie in there. You get some carb in there. And of course, some added Greek yogurt for extra protein, and mayo. Which I love the Tessa Mae’s mayo for some fat. And that works great.

And then dinner is usually something like Bolognese sauce over spaghetti squash. Or pasta, if that’s what we feel like. Or grilled chicken. Or burgers, or something really protein rich. So when I’m on top of it, that really, really simplifies my life. As long as I spend an hour, or two, or three, one day a week meal prepping those three meals that I love and can make by heart. If I don’t, then it’s a day like today where I’ve just snacked my butt off and just feel completely metabolically confused. So that’s my advice for food.

And I’ve got one more for being brilliant at the basics. This is my lifestyle advice. I advise that you just wear black all the time. That’s what I do. You don’t have to think about it. Everything matches. Black, black, black.

Ok. Finally, the last topic I wanted to talk about. It’s been on my mind a ton lately; is tongue tie stress. Now, I’m not here to talk about the biophysiology of tongue tie. Why it’s beneficial to have it’s released. Why it causes problems for some people; and not just babies, but adults as well. I’m here to talk about the stress around it. Specifically the stress that I feel when I see people talking about how many practitioners are required to make a tongue tie revision a success.

Now, I’m all about the tongue tie evaluation. We had it with my first, and we did release her tongue tie. We didn’t end up doing it with my second. I think the reason for that is; with my first, I was hyperaware about looking for things that might be wrong. I don’t know if it was really necessary to revise her tongue tie, because she was not having nursing issues. She was not mouth breathing or any of that. But for me, I was like; oh, I’ve got to go check on this. Ok, yeah, she has one? Alright, let’s fix it! And we went through that whole journey.

I chose not to do that with my second, because I felt the health stress was more than I needed to put on myself. Nursing has gone fine. We did have a chiropractor look at her palate, and just comment, like; the palate is nice and; I don’t know what the word is. Nice and wide, or whatever the word was for her palate development. So I decided to just leave it for the time being.

But I saw a post on Instagram fairly recently. And it was well-meaning. I love that the tongue tie support community has grown so, so much in the last five to seven years. It’s a big deal, because tongue tie is a real problem for many children. And parents need support in dealing with that. But, if anyone else has ever gotten stressed out about this; well, I’ll tell you what was in the post.

The Instagram post was something like; tongue tie doesn’t just take a dentist. It also takes; and oh my gosh, so many practitioners. A chiropractor. Myofascial therapist. Myofunctional therapist. Craniosacral therapist. Lactation consultant. Feeding specialist. Pediatrician. ENT specialist. And oh my god; looking at that gave me so much stress. And it might be true; you might need that much help in navigating the tongue tie release journey with your little one. And I highly encourage everyone to seek as much help as they can possibly get.

But man, oh man. Just; I was so grateful in that moment that when we revised my first daughter’s tongue tie, that all of that wasn’t out there. It was stressful in its own way, because I felt like it was kind of new. People were just talking about it in the mainstream. And I wasn’t sure what information to trust, or what I was missing. But at the same time, I think if I had seen that, I would have been like; oh my gosh! {bzzzpp} Shut down mode.

Because it’s hard. It’s hard to even fathom getting out of the house with an infant, getting to the dentist, let alone watching them go through that procedure, let alone hauling everybody out to go to the chiropractor; to the myofascial therapist; to the craniosacral therapist; to the lactation consultant; to the pediatrician; to the ENT. All of that. It’s just a lot. And the tongue tie journey is a lot anyway.

So I really just wanted to comment on that. To stand in solidarity with people who just feel really overwhelmed and to encourage everyone going through that to just take it one step at a time. Find one practitioner that you really trust that you feel has provided you with valuable information that connects with your child.

That’s another thing; the dentist that did my daughter’s revision, my first daughter’s revision. It was not a good fit. And I wish I had listened to my gut about that. We went on to find a chiropractic practitioner that just really, really connected with my daughter. And it was a good relationship. We established so much trust; both between me and her and also my daughter and her. And that was incredibly soothing. To my nervous system, as well as to my daughter’s.

And once you find a practitioner that you trust, then that person can probably help you step through that journey. And a good thing is; a lot of these practitioners have more than one therapist in the same office. And that’s something that I hope will continue to grow all across the country and around the world. We need tongue tie specialty offices, where you’ve got all these people in one place.

A little bit of a tangent here; this is what made me think of that. I have an acquaintance out here where we live that is doing this amazing thing, building this basically compound for foster parent services. And it’s this incredible thing. And listening to her and her husband speak about it; talking about providing all of these services in one place, so these foster parents don’t have to go to this place, and to this place, and basically be professional limo drivers. Right? Where you’re not spending your entire day going from one appointment to the next at different places. Waiting; being late. Then this one gets canceled. Then that one has to be rescheduled.

If we can get all these services in one place; and I’m sure that’s a market that’s growing. If we can get them all in one place where you can just come and do; boom, boom, boom. One service, the next service, the next service. Gosh, think how much easier life would be for moms of tongue tie babies. I can’t even imagine if I had had a second baby at the time, and was trying to deal with one while still taking the other to school. Or to her stuff. It’s just hard. I mean; I’m just taking my 7-year-old to soccer practice, and I can hardly ever figure out what to do with the baby. It’s just tough.

So, hopefully this keeps growing. And these practitioners hopefully continue to understand that it’s not; how overwhelming it is for a mom or a parent who is trying to deal with all of these different things all at once. So solidarity. The tongue tie stress is real. And I hope everyone gets the services they need with the minimum amount of stress.

Ok; it’s time for my weekly overshare. And this is more of a poll. The poll question is; how many of you still ask your kids to let you check out their number two’s? For regularity; for size; for shape; for color; whatever it might be? Everyone? Anyone? Nobody? Very genuinely curious. Because even through all the fads of health and wellness, I feel like one thing has stayed pretty consistent. No matter what people are being told to eat; no matter what supplements they’re being told to take. Whether they’re intermittent fasting or have a compressed eating window; whatever it is. In general, most of us agree that poop is a pretty good indicator of what’s going on inside.

And we all worry about newborn poop. Right? Is baby pooping? How many times has baby pooped? What does the poop look like? Etc., etc. But as the kids grow, I’m wondering how many of us are still looking? It’s actually really funny because; well, I probably shouldn’t tell that story, because I don’t want my daughter to get made fun of at school, if somebody happens to listen. But I do think it’s worth looking, as long as they’ll let you look.

So; my thought is, as long as my daughter’s still let me take a peek every time, I’m going to keep looking. Because it’s such a good; what we used to call it was a report card for how things are going inside. And a couple of days of poop being a little bit off; no big deal. But if it’s kind of a chronic thing, where they’re not well formed, the proper color brown, and that nice, you know, perfect poop shape. You might want to think about if there’s stress; if there’s something in the diet that could be added or shifted. Something like that. Right?

So, hopefully I’m not alone, and I’m not the only one that’s still interested in looking. 

Alright, a big thank you to Arrowhead Mills for making this episode possible. I hope you enjoyed it. Please keep sharing this podcast with your friends, family, and Instagram feed. I appreciate you. That’s it for now. I’ll see you next week.

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