Topics:
1. News and updates from Diane [2:07]
2. Something new that I’m into: saucing up plain protein [4:18]
3. Wrestling with a butternut squash [7:58]
4. Short-cut tips for quicker food prep [12:29]
5. Saving and cooking with bacon fat [23:35]
6. Best way to cook salmon [29:27]
7. Spices and blends to have on hand [35:35]
8. Finding cooking techniques with conflicting information [44:33]
9. #Treatyoself: cinnamon bread [51:52]
Coming soon!
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You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 224: Paleo Cooking Tips & Hacks with Guest Cohost Jenny Castaneda
You’re listening to the Balanced Bites podcast episode 224.
Welcome to the Balanced Bites podcast with Diane Sanfilippo and Liz Wolfe. Diane is a certified nutrition consultant, and the New York Times bestselling author of Practical Paleo, The 21-Day Sugar Detox, and co-author of Mediterranean Paleo Cooking. Liz is a nutritional therapy practitioner, and the best-selling author of Eat the Yolks and The Purely Primal Skincare Guide. Together, Diane and Liz answer your questions, interview leading health and wellness experts, and share their take on modern paleo living with their friendly and balanced approach. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only, and are not to be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Diane Sanfilippo: Hey everyone, welcome back to the show! Diane here, Liz on a little break today because we’re talking all about paleo cooking, and as many of you regular listeners know, Liz doesn’t deem herself a cooking expert. So I decided to grab a friend of mine who is often in the kitchen, coming up with great ideas, has all sorts of tips and tricks and hacks for you guys, so we’re going to talk today in a little bit. But before we get into my chat with Jenny Castaneda, let’s hear a word from one of our sponsors.
Liz Wolfe: Our podcast sponsorship today comes from Vital Choice, an online purveyor of the world’s best wild seafood delivered right to your door; because juggling a busy life shouldn’t mean you have to forgo healthy meals. At www.vitalchoice.com, you’ll find wild Alaskan salmon, halibut, tuna, sable fish, and cod, as well as prawns, crab, and scallops. You’ll also find grass-fed organic Wagyu beef, free range heritage chicken, fresh frozen organic berries, and dark organic chocolates. Make a vital choice by eating the highest quality food you can. Vital Choice; come home to real food.
1. News and updates from Diane [2:07]
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, actually before I chat with Jenny for a second I want to give you guys just a couple of quick updates. For those of you who may have missed the announcement last week, the brand new streamlined version of the 21-Day Sugar Detox program is now available. There’s still time to jump in, either for the January 4th start, which is Monday, so if you’re listening to this when it originally airs on Thursday, it seems like it’s a tight deadline there but we do have a Quick Start Guide in the online program that will get you going right away.
So as soon as you make that purchase at 21DaySugarDetox.com, you can log in, download the Quick Start Guide, and your books arrive in 2 to 3 business days within the US. Just keep in mind we have a holiday weekend right now, but if you want to get in, you can definitely do that, and the Quick Start Guide and the resources on the online program will get you going. You can also sign up for daily detox emails right there from within the membership sight, and you just need to remember to do it a day ahead of when you want to start. You have to sign up a day ahead so that the emails will start arriving in your inbox the following day.
The only other update I want to give you guys is; Periscope, Periscope, Periscope! So for those of you who are listening; I know tons of you are already over on Periscope, but I have to say, as time goes on. I’ve been doing this since the summer; it’s absolutely my favorite way to connect with you guys, and you don’t have to watch live. First of all, I want everybody to know that if you download this app, you don’t have to be on camera. If you jump onto somebody’s broadcast and you’re watching them, it’s just like any other social media where you have a handle and you’re commenting, but the cool thing is you get to comment live, ask your questions live, get to know us a little bit better, anybody who is broadcasting that way.
I know a lot of you guys as listeners really feel a good connection through the podcast, because you do get to know people through their voices and just the way that they talk every week. But Periscope for me has definitely been kind of life changing in terms of the way that I can connect with you guys. So if you’re looking for some way to get a better connection, definitely come join me over there. You just find me @DianeSanfilippo. And I’m sorry that Liz is not over there yet on Periscope, I’m not sure that she will be, but different strokes for different folks. So that’s about it there.
2. Something new that I’m into: saucing up plain protein [4:18]
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, so for this segment, a new thing I’m into lately; Jenny, are you there? I’m going to ask you for a new thing that you’re into lately.
Jenny Castaneda: Hi there Diane, how are you?
Diane Sanfilippo: Good. So for those of you guys who don’t know Jenny, Jenny is the blogger behind http://paleofoodiekitchen.com/. She’s also the author of the One-Pot Paleo Cookbook, which is awesome; really great book. You guys ask so often for recipes that are basically one pot, or slow cooker, etc., and it’s an amazing resource for that.
But Jenny I want to; you’re going to give people so much more information as we get into this whole episode.
Jenny Castaneda: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: But I want you to talk about a new thing that you’re into lately, since you’re in the kitchen a lot?
Jenny Castaneda: Ok, the new thing I’m into lately, as you know, we text often and we pretty much are in the know about each other’s macro plan, because we’re doing this custom meal plan with Christine. So, I think I’ve been really tired about eating pretty plain chicken, plain beef all the time, so I’ve started experimenting with a lot of different sauces and flavorings; those things you can just add onto plain protein to make them taste good. So this week I think I posted about a chimichurri sauce that goes really good with flank steak. And I have a few sauces and seasonings in a freebie PDF that I have on my blog, so if anyone is interested I have it online. Just make sure to subscribe to my mailing list on my website at http://paleofoodiekitchen.com/.
Diane Sanfilippo: Cool. I know, because we’re doing this macro’s plan obviously; for the people who don’t know a ton about it, it’s something that I’m talking about every day over on Periscope, so that’s one of the reasons I’m pointing you guys over there, because it’s a journey.
Jenny Castaneda: Mm-hmm, yes.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s like, every day I’m checking in, and I’m really sharing something super personal with people, what I’m going through, and I’m doing a plan and hey; as much as we do with writing recipes and all of that, there are still elements of our lives that are just the same as everyone else. We all have different struggles and different goals, and want to try different things. So I know a lot of paleo sauces are pretty high fat, right?
Jenny Castaneda: Yes, they are.
Diane Sanfilippo: So the big thing that you’re doing with these sauces is leaning them out, right? So it’s like dropping the fat without dropping the flavor. I think it’s important for people to know that it’s not because fat is bad. It’s just when you have different goals and you perhaps were eating more fat than you really needed for your goals, then you just need to reign it in a bit. And I think most of those recipes can probably; you can probably add more fat to them, more oil, more mayo, whatever it is, to kind of switch it up or make it however you want it, right?
Jenny Castaneda: Mm-hmm. Yeah, because that’s what I noticed about paleo. We are pretty liberal as to how much fat we put on it. We slather on the ghee, we put as much olive oil in it. Which is good, because it has a lot of flavor, but since we’re doing this macro plan where we have the fat scaled down a little bit, I tried to tone down the fat without sacrificing the flavor.
Diane Sanfilippo: Cool. Alright guys, so check out http://paleofoodiekitchen.com/. Tons of recipes over there, lots of other great information that you guys can access any time. But you can grab; how many sauce recipes do you have in the PDF?
Jenny Castaneda: I have 7 sauces.
Diane Sanfilippo: Cool.
Jenny Castaneda: Oh no, I have 8 sauces and 2 seasonings.
Diane Sanfilippo: Cool. So you guys can grab that for free.
Jenny Castaneda: Mm-hmm.
3. Wrestling with a butternut squash [7:58]
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, so this week since we are talking all about paleo cooking, we have questions that y’all submitted over on Instagram. If you guys aren’t following @BalancedBitespodcast on Instagram, make sure you are following because we’re getting tons of questions submitted over there. I think about every week we’re posting a different topic, and we’re not necessarily going through them all in order. I know there are some topics that we posted a call for questions in the recent past few weeks. But we’re just kind of balancing them out over the coming months. So make sure you’re following there.
You can always submit questions via the website, as well, but we’re taking a lot of them from Instagram. We want to make sure that those of you who are interacting with us are getting your questions answered!
Alright, so the questions that we have, what do you want to know about paleo cooking? Let’s see; there was one question that we had. We’ve gotten this question a lot, just in general, all over the place I’ve gotten this. {laughs} The handle that’s asking this is SnazzyMcGee {laughs}.
Jenny Castaneda: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Which is just amazing. I don’t even want to click and find out what this person’s name is.
Jenny Castaneda: SnazzyMcGee.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, because that’s just too good. So, SnazzyMcGee says, “Is there a way to cut a butternut squash that does not include the risk of chopping off my fingers. Can I throw the whole shindig into the oven unpeeled and uncut like I do a spaghetti squash, or do I continue to wrestle with my peeler, only to get all sweaty and mad halfway through.” {laughs}
Jenny Castaneda: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: That question is amazing.
Jenny Castaneda: Sweaty and mad. Wow.
Diane Sanfilippo: What’s your take on the butternut squash?
Jenny Castaneda: Well, you know what I do with this one, is I try to; I’m not sure if everyone is on board with using the microwave. I know there’s always that struggle between using it or not, but I like to poke the butternut squash with a fork, probably 10 to 12 times all over it, and then microwave it for 2 to 3 minutes. So that way, it’s softens the skin outside of the butternut enough to be easily peeled with a peeler. So after you microwave it, take it out. Just cut the top, cut the bottom, lie it flat on the chopping board, and then start to peel the sides and it comes off easily.
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s really interesting. I’ve actually never thought too much that peeling it was that difficult. I do think there’s maybe an important note here that’s just as important as having sharp knives; if you have an old peeler. {laughs} Like, if you’re using the vegetable peeler that your mom handed down to you that’s like all metal, maybe it doesn’t have; it’s not like the Oxo Good Grips or whatever. I mean, if you’re using an old peeler; I don’t know how to sharpen those, but either find a way to get it sharpened, or get a new peeler, because I do think that, just like having sharp knives makes all the difference, having a peeler that actually works makes a really big difference.
And if you aren’t going to do the microwave option, I think peeling it first is a good idea, peeling it and roasting it whole. I just kind of, I see it as a challenge to just get in there and chop it up. I’ll be like, “hey, Scott, can you help me chop this?” {laughs}
Jenny Castaneda: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Or you know, honestly you guys, if it’s one of those things that you really want to eat the butternut squash, and every time you look at it, you’re like; I don’t want to deal with that. Either buy it pre-cut…
Jenny Castaneda: Just buy it, yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, you can buy it pre-cut, or you can buy it pre-cut frozen, depending on what you’re going to do with it. If you’re going to roast it, I think buying it fresh, either whole or pre-cut fresh, roasting is definitely good to do with that. But if you’re going to puree it, then the frozen is fine. Frozen veggies, the nutrient value is great in frozen veggies. They’re pretty much harvested and frozen really quickly, so the nutrient value might be even better than the fresh that’s pre-cut. But I think the texture of the vegetable; what will happen to it once it’s frozen, I’m not sure that roasting it can redeem the squishiness, you know, of frozen veggies.
Jenny Castaneda: No, I don’t think so.
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know that you could ever roast frozen broccoli. Frozen broccoli is just; {laughs} it’s going to be kind of soggy no matter what you do.
Jenny Castaneda: Mushy.
Diane Sanfilippo: So, alright, those are our tips. I guess there’s no magic in any of that advice, but let us know if you try any of that, and we’ll see from there.
4. Short-cut tips for quicker food prep [12:29]
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, so MarCampbell asks; “short cuts in the kitchen? I’m a working mom whose maternity leave ends after the New Year. I work 10-hour days, and then have to come home and take care of a 3-year-old and a newborn baby. Also manage to cook us a healthy meal. Rotisserie chicken is one of our go-to meals, but how can I get that meal from getting old and tired while I’m staying on track? Also doing the 21-Day Sugar Detox again a second time through.” Cool, what tips do you have?
Jenny Castaneda: So, shortcuts in the kitchen. I think everyone pretty much knows that I don’t cook every day, because I also work a full time job. So what I do is I dedicate one or two days a week to do my meal prep. So I pick a Sunday and a Wednesday, and I prepare all my basics during those 2 days. Basics include proteins such as chicken, beef, some seafood, and then that’s also the time where I cut and chop the vegetables. I don’t do a lot of elaborate prep work. For example, a lot of meals we eat revolve around chicken. So chicken is pretty versatile, it tastes good, it’s easy to season. And one of my go-to’s is that I buy 3 big chicken breasts, and I season them differently, and I bake them all at the same time. So that way, I have 3 different kinds of chicken to eat throughout the week, and they don’t taste the same all the time.
Sometimes if I’m tired of chicken, I just repurpose the chicken into a different meal. I put them in soups or I put a little bit of mayo in it to make chicken salad. Just to create one set of protein each week, and then using it different ways can pretty much be a good shortcut in the kitchen. Because if you don’t have time to cook a different meal each night, then that’s a good way to prepare a meal once you get home from work.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I’ve been doing my {laughs} my salsa verde chicken.
Jenny Castaneda: Oh yeah!
Diane Sanfilippo: I’ve been converting that into a bunch of other stuff. So it does just have one flavor, basically, but it’s a pretty neutral kind of Mexican spiced flavor. But what I end up doing with that is doing the slow cooker thing; I think I’m cooking about 4 pounds of chicken breast {laughs} at once.
Jenny Castaneda: Wow.
Diane Sanfilippo: So it’s a ton, right; it makes this huge. Our biggest Tupperware container, whatever it is, we fill that whole thing with shredded chicken, and I’ll end up making tacos from it for a couple of meals; a couple of meals, like you said, I’ll do soup.
Jenny Castaneda: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: So I’ll take the sauce; this is something I do a lot if I do slow cook meals; which I don’t do a ton of slow cooking because most of the time, I’m not a huge fan of the texture of the meat. I do like what’s happening with the chicken breast when I make it this way. What I’ll do is I’ll take; and you can look, what was her name again. MarCampbell; I don’t know what her name is {laughs}.
Jenny Castaneda: {Laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: If you’re making a different slow cooker recipe, depending on the liquid that’s left in the slow cooker, you might be able to extend that into soup. So when I make; I’ll get this recipe up on the blog at some point soon, every time I make it, it’s nighttime and I can’t take a picture, and I’m just eating. {laughs} there is no picture taking. But I’ll do salsa verde in the slow cooker with like a whole onion, a big onion, a bunch of garlic cloves, a bunch of spices, and the chicken. And then when that cooks down, it actually makes a rich sauce almost, and it’s not quite thick enough to just be a sauce, so I’ll take some of it and just cook it down and reduce it a little bit, so I’ll simmer it on the stove and let some of the water cook out so that it gets more condensed. But with the other part of it, it’s almost like the base for a tortilla soup. It’s this smoky, tomatillo, tomato kind of {laughs}
Jenny Castaneda: Ok I’m hungry now.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah! And then the chicken is cooked in there, so it already has this base of chickenyness. So I’ll basically just add broth to that and then taste it, sometimes I’ll add some tomato paste or some salt and pepper, and then when I go to serve it, I’ll heat up the soup in a saucepan, just right on the stove, and then what I’ll do is I’ll take some of that shredded chicken. I don’t even have to heat up the chicken, because if I heat up the soup I’ll add a little bit of chicken to that. You can add other veggies if you want; I’ve been adding white rice to it, a squeeze of lime of cilantro.
So basically, Jenny’s approach is to take the protein and kind of season it differently and then cook it, and I like that too, we’ve definitely done that. When we do grilled chicken breast, for example, we’ll line up a whole bunch of it. Same thing with steak or anything really and just season each one kind of differently, and then grill it. And then like you said, you get something that’s a little bit different each time. But with this, I’m basically taking one dish and kind of converting it into two or three different meals, and then this morning what I did was I actually had soup for breakfast and then I took; sometimes what I’ll do is I’ll put rice or a tortilla or something down and then put some of that shredded chicken on top and then some eggs on top of that.
Jenny Castaneda: Mmmm. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I think the big thing about that short cut, what both of us have really discovered, is that getting a big batch of protein cooked seems to be the biggest thing. You know? Because veggies cook really fast, or you can add raw veggies to something. If you’re somebody who needs more starches; whether that’s going to be something like white rice, or potatoes, or sweet potato, I think getting those prepped ahead of time is pretty important too. You can’t just quickly make potatoes {laughs} I don’t know how long it takes if you want to try and just microwave one, maybe that’s quick, but from my angle, starches definitely you need to have those ready to go if you’re going to eat those.
And then, so here’s another short cut that neither of us actually mentioned; all these cheater things we’re finding at Trader Joe’s.
Jenny Castaneda: Oh, yeah!
Diane Sanfilippo: Right?
Jenny Castaneda: Yes.
Diane Sanfilippo: So, another short cut that I know; {laughs} Jenny and I will text pictures back and forth from still being at Trader Joe’s; like, “look what I found!” One of the things we both found because of Christine turning us on to it was the sweet potato. Which, they told me it’s a seasonal item, so I don’t know what’s going to happen with that. But it’s frozen little sweet potato pucks, and it’s 100% sweet potato. So those of you who are like; “Oh my gosh, I want sweet potatoes, and I don’t want to have to cook them all the time. Of course, it’s going to be like a puree, it’s not like a baked sweet potato, but those are perfect. And you do just microwave them. And you guys, if you’re looking for short cuts, I think don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good; get the food made and don’t stress about it. Or you can just bake; you can literally bake a whole tray, a whole pan of sweet potatoes or potatoes while you’re doing other things, and just have them ready to go in the fridge.
Jenny Castaneda: Yeah. You know that seasonal sweet potato, the purple one that I’ve been posting online too.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yes; I think , is it an Okinawan sweet potato?
Jenny Castaneda: I don’t know.
Diane Sanfilippo: It might be.
Jenny Castaneda: No one seems to be able to tell me what they are. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Jenny Castaneda: They’re just like; oh, they’re purple sweet potatoes and they’re seasonal. So, what I do is I roast a whole batch of them, and I puree them, and I freeze them. Because that way I can just take them out of the freezer, and say, ok I want to eat some sweet potatoes with this meal.
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s a really good idea. Because actually what we’re finding with these little pucks, for example, is they’re already portioned out. I think somebody; I read something on a website recently about a different type of food to precook and put in ice cube trays. I know I’ve seen Michelle from Nom Nom Paleo use little trays for broth and things like that, but you could totally do that with starches. You could do it with soup. I mean, there are so many different ideas for short cuts. {laughs}
Jenny Castaneda: {laughs} Yeah. I also have one more tip. You know every time you cook; I don’t know if a lot of people cook with garlic and onions, but I do because it adds a lot of flavor. So instead of having to chop onions and mince garlic all the time, I have them pre chopped and pre minced each week. So I have a container in the fridge that has my chopped onions, and then my minced garlic.
Diane Sanfilippo: Do you chop them by hand or do you put them in your food processor; what do you do?
Jenny Castaneda: I chop them by hand. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. I think, for onions, I think a food processor, you could just roughly chop them and pulse them in there a few times, I think that would work out well. It wouldn’t; for those of us taking pictures of our food, you probably wouldn’t have a perfect, you know, square dice on your onions. And then for garlic; one of the things that I do for garlic, is I don’t always chop it. A lot of times, I just smash it and throw it into things. If it’s going to cook for any length of time, I don’t even bother chopping the garlic, because the flavor is a little more mellow if you smash it and throw it in. and I like eating those after it’s slow cooked.
Jenny Castaneda: Those are so good.
Diane Sanfilippo: But I’ll use a little microplane grater just to get the garlic really fine if I am doing it on the spot. If you have one of those little mini food processors, or one of those tap and chop things, those would probably be really good for getting a whole bunch of garlic pre chopped and ready to go. I’m sure we could do a whole episode on just short cut tips and tricks.
Jenny Castaneda: Yeah. There are a lot of tips and tricks. I mean, any time that is shaved from prepping meals is pretty helpful.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, totally. So, I think too, one of the things that just comes up for people is, the more you do something, the more you inevitably find shorter ways to do it. Because you’re like; ok, why is this taking me so long. Or, you know, there has to be a better way. Or you Google, am I doing this the best way possible or the most efficient way. I think with a lot of cooking stuff in general, it’s just practice, practice, practice. And a lot of people haven’t spent that much time practicing, you know.
Jenny Castaneda: Mm-hmm. Yes.
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5. Saving and cooking with bacon fat [23:35]
Diane Sanfilippo: MTensity {laughs} that’s a funny one. The handle always just cracks me up. Says, “I’d like to know more about cooking with bacon fat. How long can you keep it? Do you refrigerate it? Can you add to it each time you cook?” Do you cook with bacon fat?
Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, I do.
Diane Sanfilippo: So what’s your take on that.
Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, I cook with bacon fat, and I have a jar of back fat in the fridge that has been there for a month. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Jenny Castaneda: And it still tastes good. So I think it lasts pretty long. I don’t really add to it each time I cook, because there’s a tendency of the old fat to sit at the bottom, and then it mixes with the new fat. I don’t know if it changes the flavor or the consistency, but every time I render bacon fat, I just throw out the old one just to be safe.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think it depends on how you are storing it, too. And when the last one was made.
Jenny Castaneda: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: So when I was cooking bacon every single day, I would just pour more on top of it and keep it in the fridge, and then eventually if I was doing something where I would use a lot of it, I would try and really scoop a lot of it out so that I could use it up. But I do think if you’re adding to it often, and you’re just doing a last in, first out situation {laughs} on that jar, where you’re never really getting to the bottom of it, you probably do want to go ahead and empty it at some point and you do want to just put it in the trash. You don’t want to put that down the sink or anything.
But really, how long you can keep it; I would recommend refrigerating it if it’s more than a day or 2. If you have it for a day or two on your countertop, you’re going to be fine. The profile, the fatty acid profile of bacon fat is actually pretty similar to olive oil, so you’ll notice a lot of times it does stay liquid on your countertop. Sometimes it gets a little bit more solid; it does have a little bit more saturated fat than olive oil, so at room temperature depending on your room temperature, and it can vary by just a couple of degrees. And it can either make that bacon fat more liquid or more solid based on those couple of degrees. But I would put it in the fridge if it’s going to be more than, you know, within the next day or two that you’re going to use it. Just because it will stay; it won’t smell rancid, and you can definitely use it.
The other thing is, I don’t recommend saving bacon fat unless you’re using really high quality pork. So if you’re using pastured bacon; which I assume a lot of you guys listening are, that’s the perfect time to keep it. Because you paid a lot for that bacon, and especially if a good portion of what’s on that bacon is fat, you don’t want to just dump it and get rid of it. It’s got a ton of flavor, it’s actually a really healthy, good source of saturated fat if it’s coming from pastured pigs. So partly for economics and partly to just get the nutrition from that fat, save it.
But if you do happen to cook perhaps a lower quality bacon for some reason; maybe it’s for a recipe, or you’re just, you bought some that you maybe don’t normally buy, or that’s just what you’re buying, I wouldn’t necessarily save that bacon fat. I wouldn’t use it for cooking, I would just discard that; eat what you’re eating, and let the fat fall away.
The other thing I was going to say about this too, is sometimes people ask do you use it a second time? Because a lot of times if you put a bunch of fat in the pan, it doesn’t all get used up, right? It’s not all absorbed into whatever you’re cooking. And I don’t generally recommend that you reuse a cooking fat. If you’re using a ton of something, like a duck fat for example, to fry something. Like maybe you want to try making duck fat fries or duck fat and back fat fries, I would smell the oil after it’s cooled. If it still smells good and fresh, then you’re probably fine. But if it smells at all off, and it could be rancid and spoiled from the cooking, then I wouldn’t use it again. And I definitely wouldn’t use it more than a few times. It’s just that you want to keep the oil intact and as it gets oxidized from cooking, you will notice that the smell can change. It’s like, {laughs} any fast food joint that you drive by or walk into, that kind of thick, rancid oil smell is definitely not something you want to be smelling from a pot in your kitchen. So there’s that.
Jenny Castaneda: I guess it depends on what you use the fat for, right? What if you fry fish in bacon fat?
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, yeah.
Jenny Castaneda: This is an example.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, then that’s going to be left.
Jenny Castaneda: {laughs} Then you use it for vegetables.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, it might be left kind of smelling weird or tasting weird. I mean, if you were to fry it that way, even if you were to shallow pan fry fish in bacon fat, and then you want to cook veggies that you’re about to eat with the fish {laughs} it’s probably fine, but yeah you’re going to leave that scent and taste behind. {laughs}
Jenny Castaneda: Yeah. {laughs} That sounds interesting.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, one time Scott went to cook something in a skillet that I had previously cooked fish in, and our cast iron skillets, I don’t wash them out unless we really have to.
Jenny Castaneda: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: I mean, that’s like the big secret to cast iron. Stop washing it.
Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, wipe it off.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, just wipe it. I mean, I just leave it. If it has a layer of fat in there, I’m like, ok great. But I left it after having cooked fish, and he went to start cooking, I don’t know, some kind of sausage.
Jenny Castaneda: Oh! {LAUGHS}
Diane Sanfilippo: And he’s like, what was in here? {laughs}
Jenny Castaneda: Mmm salmon sausage.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, he was like, that’s gross.
Jenny Castaneda: Oh yeah. Fish is a very strong flavor, you know. You need to wash the pan thoroughly to be able to get that flavor out.
6. Best way to cook salmon [29:27]
Diane Sanfilippo: For sure. So, on the heels of that one, Cameo and Company is asking, “I would love to learn about cooking salmon. I almost always cook it in the oven, but would love to learn how to quickly make it for lunch that is flavorful and just as flaky as oven baked. Thanks?” What’s your tip because I definitely have my quick salmon cooking method that I actually just posted a video on Periscope yesterday doing it live. But how do you usually make salmon?
Jenny Castaneda: I think your method is much more easier than mine, because what I do; I do two ways. It’s either I pan sear it on a stovetop, probably 5 to 7 minutes for both sides. Or, if I’m being lazy I just put the salmon in the oven at 375 and let it bake for probably half an hour. Those are my two go-to’s, but I think the one that you showed on Periscope was faster.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, 30 minutes sounds like a really long time to bake a piece of salmon. {laughs} I wouldn’t normally think a piece of salmon needs to bake for more than 15, 20 tops. But I guess it really does depend on how hot the oven is and how cooked through you like it. I mean with wild fish, I don’t make it so it’s totally well done. I mean, I do like it to be pretty cooked through, but if it’s a tiny bit darker in the center and not totally, you know, the lighter opaque color I’m fine with that.
So the method that I typically use is, I’ll heat a little bit of fat, depending on what I’ve eaten that day, I’ll either add some more fat to the pan or sometimes I don’t if I’m using a cast iron skillet that’s well seasoned. But I’ll heat up the pan over a medium high heat, and I’ll salt the skin side with just some sea salt, and I’ll put it skin side down for about 2 minutes and let that skin crisp up. And then I will, lately I’m seasoning the top with the Primal Palate Adobo spice, because you just wouldn’t think that that would taste good on salmon. I just wouldn’t; it’s like garlic, onion, turmeric, salt, pepper, and oregano. And I don’t know why, I just inherently would not assume that that goes great with salmon. But it does. It’s awesome.
So I literally sprinkle that on top, sometimes I put extra salt and pepper, it just depends. But I usually just sprinkle that on top, and then I throw it in my little toaster oven broiler, #SonyaMorganstyle, for anybody who is a long time listener {laughs}, and a Real Housewives of New York fan. But I’ll throw it in the broiler. So if your oven has a broil setting, you know, it’s going to take a while. I mean, you can turn your oven on. I guess the broil usually does turn on pretty quickly, it’s not like waiting for your oven to come up to temperature. But you guys should know, 99% of the time I’m all about speed. I am not sitting around waiting for food to cook. I’m like, what’s the fastest way I can get this done.
So I’ll take the salmon; I have one skillet that’s, I want to say it’s about an 8-inch skillet, and it can fit 2 pieces of 4-6 ounce salmon. So if I’m cooking for Scott and I. Obviously if you’re cooking for a family and you need to make more than that, you would need to use a larger skillet, you would need to use your regular oven. But I’m a big fan of the toaster oven, so I throw the pan right in the toaster oven on broil.
My mom used to always broil fish; I don’t know why. And she did it in the toaster oven. Like she would fill up that whole little tray with fillets of white fish or whatever it was; sole or something. So I throw the whole skillet in the toaster oven on broil. I usually have it set a little bit low, I don’t have it all the way up next to the heat source, because broil for those of you that aren’t familiar, the difference between broiling and baking is that baking emits heat from the bottom and broiling pushes heat from the top. So you’ll notice that when you turn on the broil setting, the top bars in the toaster ovens get read, and that’s where it gets hot. In your oven, obviously you can see those flames turn on in the broiler typically you’ll see it. Some people have it in a drawer, but I think a lot of newer stoves it’s right in the main portion of the oven, so you sometimes have to move a rack up so you can have the food closer to that heat source. But it’s just a really quick way of cooking it.
I like broiling it after the sear because I’ve already kind of gotten the bottom cooked a bit and the pan is nice and hot. Then I just throw it in there, and it’s literally only another 4 minutes that I put it in there. If you’re salmon is much thicker, you could maybe go up to 6 minutes, but the whole process is only about 6 minutes for me. And that is a perfect lunch, because I’m throwing a salad together, I’m making veggies or doing something else. That gets cooked, and then it’s super easy. So that’s my method for doing it, that’s how I’ve been doing it consistently for the last few months, and I absolutely love it. So check out that video.
If you need to check out my Periscope archives, you can go to DianeScopes.com and then there’s a link to the archives from there, and you can find it. But coming up in the next few weeks, we’ll definitely have some cool ways to watch different videos of mine over on BalancedBites.com but we just don’t have all of that ready just yet.
Diane Sanfilippo: Pete’s Paleo is a friend of the Balanced Bites podcast. They’re bacon is insanely delicious, and sugar free, and their premade paleo meals make your life so much easier when everything is getting busy and getting real food on the table is still a top priority, as it should be. Pete’s Paleo is now offering a 30-day gut healing kit containing bone broth, gelatin gummies, instant organic soup packs, and an E-cookbook. It’s the perfect complement to any anti-inflammatory diet. Get yours today at www.guthealingkit.com. Use code GRABACUPPABROTH to get $25 off; that’s an amazing deal. It’s GRABACUPPABROTH, C-U-P-P-A. And you can grab that code any time at www.BalancedBites.com to just read it and make sure you’re typing it in right. You can also use code BALANCEDBITES to get $5 off any of their regular meal plans. Check out www.PetesPaleo.com today. Pete’s Paleo; bringing fine dining to your cave.
7. Spices and blends to have on hand [35:35]
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, so we’ve got time for a few more questions here. MamaMell asks; “Favorite go-to spices to have on hand? I frequently use Flavor God, garlic and onion powder, smoked paprika, and of course good ol’ salt and pepper. What others am I missing out on?”
Jenny Castaneda: Hmm. That’s a good question. Well I don’t like to make my spices complicated, so I also have the course sea salt available, and I have my course ground black pepper, and two other flavorings that I like are garlic powder and onion powder. So basically I combine sea salt, black pepper, garlic powder, onion powder, and paprika, and that’s my base for spices so I can put that on chicken, fish, and sometimes I use it to stir fry vegetables. And depending on what mood I’m in, I throw in a little bit more of different types of spices. For example, if I want to use that base in turkey meatballs, I throw in a little bit of ground rosemary or sometimes ground sage to give it a little bit of additional flavor and depth. Or sometimes if I want to use it on fish, I add a little bit of cayenne pepper or chili powder. But basically those 5 seasonings are my base spices that I just add on to.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm. Yeah, those are the ones she’s using a lot, too. I actually use, I would say, yeah, salt, pepper, garlic are definitely my trifecta use the most. But I don’t use nonorganic spices; I know she references Flavor God, and I’m not trying to poo-poo, but when it comes to spices, one of the things that’s important to remember that you’re getting from spices, other than flavor are micronutrients, phytochemicals, powerful antioxidants, and I do definitely recommend that people stick as much as possible with organic spices. So I would just keep that in mind.
I know that it gets really exciting to see a lot of different spice blends out there. It’s one of the reasons why I love the Primal Palate spices. You guys know I’m really good friends with Bill and Hayley, and it’s actually something that I talked about with them early on when they were developing the product line. I was like, you know, I’m psyched for this to come out. I know that you guys are going to have it be the absolutely best quality possible, and for me that’s a really important thing, to keep the quality really high.
It’s almost like when we talk about priorities for spending on things like quality protein and quality fats; spices are really important. The other thing is you don’t always need to use as much when you buy a high quality organic spice. So maybe if you’re using 2 teaspoons of one that doesn’t have as potent of a flavor, you can use one of something that’s a bit fresher and more potent flavor. Organic spices are not irradiated, and they’re always, of course going to be non-GMO. Anyway; sidebar.
So you guys have seen me using the Primal Palate. Their Adobo blend and the Meat and Potatoes blend are some of my favorites. I use them a ton. The Meat and Potatoes blend is kind of like this blend that we’re talking about, where it’s like garlic, onion, smoked paprika, I think. I don’t’ remember exactly what else is in there. But those are great.
I’m trying to think what else I reach for a ton; I reach for oregano a lot, and the funny thing about that is I used to hate oregano.
Jenny Castaneda: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I used to be like; I don’t like oregano, it just smells like…
Jenny Castaneda: Is it the smell, yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I mean the smell; it was so off putting to me. You know what it smelled like? {laughs} It smelled like cheap pasta sauce to me.
Jenny Castaneda: Oh.
Diane Sanfilippo: Like it had this smell that was like, junky, just I don’t know.
Jenny Castaneda: Maybe it depends on the type of oregano that you buy.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well, I just think I had this association with that smell, because the other thing was, my dad; my dad’s Italian, he made sauce, and it was never; he never put oregano in his sauce! It was only ever just basil. So it had this really sweet smell, and sweet taste. And oregano, obviously you guys know, it’s pretty potent and pungent. It’s actually a really potent antimicrobial as well, antibacterial. So the funny thing is that eating oregano regularly; this is where I’m talking about the importance of spices and herbs, because oregano is really an herb, not a spice, but whatever same difference. {laughs} It’s that we’re getting so much from them, but we can only really get that from them if they’re high quality. So that’s another one that I use a ton.
The other stuff that I keep on hand for flavoring that’s not necessarily in a spice cabinet are citrus; so lemon and lime. We always have a ton of lemons and limes. I use lemon juice and lime juice all the time. I’m using them every day in some way. Because a lot of times, people think something needs salt when it actually needs acid, and so a perfect example of that is Mexican food, or this smoky tortilla soup, for example. You’re tasting it, and you’re like; it’s a little flat, it’s got this richness but it needs something. It needs a brightness, and a lot of times people think it needs salt, and it really just needs a brightness from the acid. So squeezing some lemon or lime can help a lot of things. And then fresh herbs definitely. We always have cilantro here, because I’m obsessed with cilantro. But if you like parsley, which I cannot understand. {laughs}
Jenny Castaneda: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Use fresh parsley, fresh basil. Any of the fresh herbs are going to be really good for you, and add a ton of flavor. I think, again, they add brightness. The cool thing, also, about fresh herbs. I know this is true of cilantro; I’m not sure if it’s true of parsley. I don’t think it’s true of basil, but cilantro is also a potent heavy metal detox support. So as I go on and on talking about the power of spices and herbs, these flavorings are not just there for flavor. They’re doing amazing things in our body at a micromedicinal level. I just made that up, that expression. It’s not like you’re eating cilantro and all of a sudden you’re heavily detoxing mercury; it’s just on this micro level all the time, and then there are people who need to go through a detox like that, and they find that they’re being told to eat these things, and they’re like, “oh, I never knew about that.” So just stuff to consider.
I’m trying to think what else is in my pantry or on my countertop. The other spices that I definitely reach for pretty often are cinnamon, cumin, and chili powder. And then when I’m cooking something that I want to have like a chili or a Mexican flavor, coriander, which is the seed of cilantro.
Jenny Castaneda: Oh, yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: And if you need to do a nightshade free version of some Mexican flavored food, using cumin and coriander really helps. Because those give you the pop of flavor, and that almost a smoky richness to food that people presume you can only get from pepper spices. But I find that if you use cumin and coriander together, you know salt and pepper, maybe even some cinnamon, you can get a really good, rich flavor without some of those nightshades. So that’s really kind of it.
Jenny Castaneda: I’m hungry now. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I know!
Jenny Castaneda: All this talk about spices, and cilantro.
Diane Sanfilippo: I know, I’m obsessed with cilantro. I feel like I need a website dedicated to my love of cilantro.
Jenny Castaneda: It has a very citrusy flavor.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Jenny Castaneda: I really like citrus in everything.
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s true. And cilantro is extremely polarizing, so for anybody listening who is like, “how can she love it so much?” I listened to a podcast episode on, I believe it was Gastropod was the show I was listening to, and they talked about the polarizing effect of the taste of cilantro, and could you make yourself like it if you didn’t. and I feel that way about parsley, so I get it. But you’ll never see parsley used in any of my books. So, {laughs}.
Jenny Castaneda: {laughs} Even as a garnish?
Diane Sanfilippo: No, because I would never have it in my house.
Jenny Castaneda: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s like, it does not cross the threshold of my home. But feel free to use it in place of cilantro if you like, though I think you’re crazy. Ok.
Jenny Castaneda: Ok, I’ll make you a chimichurri sauce made with just cilantro then.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, that’s how I make it, for sure.
Jenny Castaneda: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I can handle parsley in a chimichurri when it’s mellowed out a ton, so I think there’s just something on the front of biting into parsley that I, it just, I don’t understand why we eat that. {laughs} And I’m like, this flavor is crazy.
Jenny Castaneda: I like it. {laughs}
8. Finding cooking techniques with conflicting information [44:33]
Diane Sanfilippo: You like it. Ok, alright. Let’s see what else; ok this one is from The Gut You Feed. “How do you know a cooking technique to follow, even when you get conflicting information within the paleo/real food sphere? For example, should you boil bones for broth 24 hours, or as long as you want? Should you use delicate fats like duck and chicken fat for high heat cooking, or reserve those for low temps only? What are your favorite sources for tried and true paleo recipes in addition to your own fabulous books and projects?”
Jenny Castaneda: That’s a lot of questions.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s a lot of questions. I’m going to actually answer that first one really quickly.
Jenny Castaneda: Ok.
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t really cook from recipes {laughs}, so. If I’m looking for baked goods recipes, I pretty much go to Brittany Angell and Primal Palate; those are the two that I really turn to. So PrimalPalate.com or any of the Make it Paleo books, or Gather, any of those; or Every Last Crumb and Brittany Angell’s website when it comes to baking. But I don’t cook from recipes. Do you ever cook from recipes, Jenny?
Jenny Castaneda: Sometimes from my own recipes.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Jenny Castaneda: But I know we get a lot of really good awesome paleo books from our friends, but I pretty much gravitate towards, you know, tried and true recipes or something that I come up with on the fly. I’m not a recipe person, per se.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Jenny Castaneda: I like to create recipes, but…
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m going to go through your book; I know you sent me copies recently, and I’m going to go through your book. You mentioned a soup you think I would really like. I’m going to check that out, but the chances of me following it to the letter are pretty slim.
Jenny Castaneda: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s just too stressful for me to follow a recipe as a rebel tendency, for those of you who listen to the show regularly. Those kinds of rules are just shackles for me. So I don’t really do that. I do definitely, when it comes to baking, I use resources because I cannot bake to save my life
Jenny Castaneda: I’m there with you. You and I can’t bake.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Jenny Castaneda: We follow the same recipe, but it comes out differently.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh gosh! It’s crazy. Ok, so the beginning of this question was, “how do you know what cooking technique to follow when you get conflicting information?” Honestly, I’m not an information overload kind of person. So if I were to read something, for example, from one website and I follow it, and I like what happens, I’m not still searching for more ways or concerned that there are 10 other ways to do it and one might be better. So it kind of sounds like this person, The Gut You Feed, is a questioner, and is constantly looking for new answers to everything or questioning everything, and I’m not like that.
So once I find something that I consider to be tried and true, I’m good. I’m moving on to something else, I’m not constantly worried that I should be doing it differently. But if I learned something new and I try it, that’s really how I know what I like to do. So I think you just have to {laughs}, The Gut You Feed, you have to follow your gut on it.
Jenny Castaneda: Follow your gut, yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: So with broth, though, she’s asking, “Should you boil bones for 24 hours?” you’re not boiling anything for that long, first of all. If you’re boiling anything, it’s like an hour or two, and then you’re simmering. So I just wanted to jump in and make a correction there. There shouldn’t be an actual boiling for that much time; that’s just too aggressive. I don’t think you really need to do that.
But in terms of cooking fats, and should you reserve things and use things at lower temperatures; again, if you’re looking for an answer of “what should you do” and finding more information feels good and helpful to you, instead of getting an answer of do this, don’t do that; dig for why. So if you’re trying to figure out, why cook with certain fats at certain times and not others, then that will help you answer your question.
I don’t always want to be in the business of giving answers, I’d rather give you the tools to figure out an answer for yourself. So, for me, I generally stick to using fats that can withstand more heat to cook with, but I will use olive oil now and then if I’m doing a steam sauté where the temperature is not getting super hot, and if I happen to put olive oil in a pan and it starts smoking, I try and wipe that out and start over, or dump it out. You know, you have to learn the why’s to really make decisions based on the information.
So the same thing with the broth; it’s like, well why would I say not to boil it that much? Well, what happens when we cook food at a high temperature for a long period of time? If you were to boil broth for 24 hours, you’re degrading the proteins in the broth. Cooking breaks down proteins, and boiling for that long would break them down way too far. So that’s the kind of thing where getting to the base of the why’s and understanding the why’s is going to help you make decisions without feeling like you’re on information overload.
I honestly wouldn’t take in information from 10 different sources. I would focus on the 2 or 3 that you know, like and trust the most, and just go with that. And if for some reason you’re feeling super conflicted or you’re getting new information all the time; either turn off the sources of new information, or just revisit why you were doing it a certain way to decide whether or not the way you’re doing it is the way you want to keep doing it. So that’s an indirect answer to your question, but that’s really what the best answer is.
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright; I’m going to see here. I think we’re pretty much; I’m trying to see if we got to all these good, good questions. You guys had awesome questions. I think there might have been another one; there was one other question about adding flavor without adding a lot of sodium, but I think we kind of covered that. That was asked on your Instagram feed, @PaleoFoodieKitchen if you guys want to go follow Jenny. What’s your other account you have that’s just your kind of personal food?
Jenny Castaneda: Oh, yeah my personal account is @Jenny__Casteneda.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, two underscores.
Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, two underscores.
Diane Sanfilippo: So that one is a little more of just meals and stuff like that?
Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, any meal I post there is related to the macro meal plan that we follow from Christine, so it’s not as pretty or photogenic…
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, it might not be paleo, too, right? It’s kind of gluten free.
Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, it’s not paleo, so to anyone who is expecting it to be paleo, it’s not.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok. {laughs} that’s cool. So yeah that was the only other question was about how to add flavor without adding sodium, but I think we covered that with the citrus and the herbs and all those other spices. The only other thing I would say there, too, is if you are cooking something with water, you can cook it with broth instead of water, especially if it’s homemade broth that you didn’t salt, so then you don’t have a ton of sodium in there. Using broth instead of water adds a richness and flavor without adding the sodium.
Jenny Castaneda: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Any other notes on that one, or pretty much it?
Jenny Castaneda: Yeah, I think that’s pretty much it.
9. #Treatyoself: cinnamon bread [51:52]
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, cool. Alright, so we are going to talk about a Treat Yoself; I didn’t actually run this one by Jenny because I have one to share with you guys, since she shared her new thing she’s into lately. My #Treatyoself of the week actually involves last weeks’ new thing I’m into, plus something we’ve been talking about today, which is spices. So making cinnamon toast.
Clip: Three words for you; Treat. Yo. Self.
Diane Sanfilippo: I feel like.
Jenny Castaneda: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: When I say that out loud, I’m like; do I even know who I am?
Jenny Castaneda: Oh my gosh.
Diane Sanfilippo: Because it feels like the old me meets the new me, and I’ve gone through this progression of being a lot more strict paleo to trying to just find what works for me. It’s absolutely not that I don’t believe in paleo or think that paleo is a great way to eat, but this is working for me. I feel mentally and emotionally more relaxed about eating and food, and it’s working for my body and I’m enjoying things.
So, I’m taking that gluten free bread that you and I love, this Canyon Bake House brand, they don’t pay us to say that. {laughs}
Jenny Castaneda: No. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: We just like it, and I’ll use a little bit of ghee on it, my measured amount, whatever it is. Which, you guys I’m telling you. I know people; look, I did a whole rant on the people who are haters of counting. I have talked about this for the last 4+ years on the podcast, I am not a counting hater. I think there are plenty of people for whom it is very helpful. So I’ll put a small measured amount of ghee on the toast, and I will sprinkle it with the Primal Palate Cinnamon Sugar, and it’s the bomb. And I’m like the happiest person ever eating that. Scott is the same way; we’re like; I feel like a normal person!
Jenny Castaneda: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: And you know, I don’t feel sick after eating it, and for me it kind of fits into the overall scheme of my day with the amount of carbs I’m taking in right now, and I’m just loving it. It makes me feel really happy, and it feels like a super treat, and being on this meal plan actually makes me not want treats as much because I’m getting a little more balance just inherently worked in. I don’t know if you feel the same way, but I’m really enjoying that. So that’s my treat yoself of the week. If you are going to treat yoself, use #BBPodcast, or come tell us over @BalancedBitespodcast over on Instagram.
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright guys, that’s it for this week. Don’t forget, you can find Jenny at http://paleofoodiekitchen.com. She’s got her sauces eBook, PDF situation over there. I believe she’s also got a free 2016 calendar?
Jenny Castaneda: Yeah!
Diane Sanfilippo: Does that get sent to them if they subscribe? How do they get that one?
Jenny Castaneda: Actually, that one is available right now, so I sent it to all my mailing list subscribers last week. But if you are a new subscriber today, you get both freebies.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, cool.
Jenny Castaneda: So you get 2016 calendar and the sauces PDF.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s really pretty; I’m actually looking at it over on your Instagram. If you guys like having a wall calendar, something to cross off, maybe you want to hang it in your kitchen or your office. It’s really cool, I think that’s such a creative idea. I love that. So you guys can find that at http://paleofoodiekitchen.com. Don’t forget, you can always find Liz at https://realfoodliz.com/, and me, Diane, at http://dianesanfilippo.com. Hey you guys, if you’ve been listening to this show for a while, which I think a lot of you have, and you have not yet left us a review and a rating in iTunes, please take just a moment to hop over to iTunes and do that. We would so, so appreciate it. Make sure you’re joining our email lists so you can stay updated on goodies and extras you don’t find anywhere else on our websites or here on the podcast. Thanks for listening; we’ll catch you next week.
