Balanced Bites Podcast Episode #199: Post-meal fatigue, is gluten the problem?, and natural household products

1.  What’s new for you from Diane & Liz [1:55]
2.  A new thing I’m into lately: Wonder Weeks and Baby wearing [10:37]
3.  Shout Out: Balanced Bites podcast 200th episode [16:39]
Listener Questions:
4. Extreme fatigue after eating [19:46]
5. Natural household and body care products [32:55]
6. Gluten and diverticulitis [42:43]
7. Diane’s Kitchen tip: coffee replacements [51:39]
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Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone! Liz here, Diane over there, as usual.
Diane Sanfilippo: Hey!
Liz Wolfe: Hey friend. Did you notice that I said “Hey everyone” instead of “hey friends”.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s my favorite.
Liz Wolfe: Yep. Let’s have a word from our sponsors.
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1. What’s new for you from Diane & Liz [1:55]
Liz Wolfe: Cool. So, what’s going on with you over there, friend? How was your 4th?
Diane Sanfilippo: My 4th of July was really good. We were up in the Adirondacks, and yeah, I don’t know.
Liz Wolfe: what is an Adirondack for those that don’t know? {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s a mountain range up in upstate New York.
Liz Wolfe: Fancy.
Diane Sanfilippo: Scott is from upstate New York; he’s from outside of Rochester, and yeah, we’re about 3.5 hours from the Adirondack, and so we’ve gone up there the past few years. His friends do a little meet up, hiking, camping kind of deal. We {laughs} we camped the first year, we were just up there for one night with them, and we did the camping thing in the tent with the whole deal, and I was like, this is the last time I’m doing that. We weren’t engaged yet, and I was joking to him on the way home. I was like, you know that we pretty much only slept in a tent because we weren’t even engaged yet {laughs} like once, once we passed the whole I like her phase, I definitely; we had been together like 8 months, I knew we were going to get married at that point, but it was just funny. I was like, yeah, I’m not doing that anymore. {laughs} I like hiking, I’m cool with the outdoors and campfires and all that stuff; I’m not into sleeping in tents. I’m just not into it. I’m slightly more indoorsy than that. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Indoorsy.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. So, it did not get wasted. We were driving home really early this morning, and I was like, I don’t think people are really awake yet, it’s really quiet around here. He was like, I think people kind of drink a lot. And you know me, I’m a terrible drinker, I think I had one…
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, you’re the biggest disappointment
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: Of our Balanced Bites Workshop tour was that I couldn’t tie one on with you at the end of the night, jeeze.
Diane Sanfilippo: It was your big disappointment. You’re like, what do you mean you don’t want to go to a bar and throw a few back! I’m like, eh, I could eat a whole bunch of food. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: How about some bone marrow.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I was all about the bone marrow, everywhere we went on tour. No, anyway, I did have one cider but promptly had some gnarly indigestion. That’s been happening to me, that was happening over the winter when we were on the cruise in South America, and I was trying to kick back and have some drinks, it just was not agreeing with me. Anyway, we also tried to have some coconut milk ice cream,
I know, I’m sure a bunch of our listeners enjoy the So Delicious brand, or the Luna and Larry’s, which is definitely not perfect squeaky clean dairy-free ice cream, but I was like, eh, I see this in the store. That grocery store really didn’t have a ton of options, really not a ton of healthy stuff. A couple of produce items that we picked up there, but I saw the coconut milk ice cream, I was like, oh cool, I can get my ice cream on! So I got a pint of this mint chip, and it was such a bummer. It was the So Delicious brand, and I think the Luna and Larry’s is better. I haven’t had either of them in years, I used to get them every now and then. But it was just not minty enough. I’m all about the really strong flavors. So anyway, if you’re buying coconut milk ice cream, I do not recommend the So Delicious brand mint chip. So there’s that.
What else, oh we did, however, successfully crush two bags of Jackson’s Honest Chips, so there’s that.
Liz Wolfe: Whoa.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} We brought those up.
Liz Wolfe: Living on the edge.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. We packed a pretty decent cooler. We had a ton of stuff with us, and eating up in, we were actually in a town called Speculator, and in a couple of towns surrounding that, and there are not a lot of food options up there. So, if you’re vacationing, in Speculator, bring your food. Anyway. That’s it on the life update. Did you guys do anything on the 4th, or were you just kind of, hold everyone down? Were there fireworks going off and dogs freaking out?
Liz Wolfe: You asked me a lot of questions in one question.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} So we went over to a friend’s house for a little bit. The tradition has been since I was, oh my gosh, since I was a baby, my grandmother has lived out at a place, a lovely little placed called Lake Quivira, Kansas for 50 years, she was one of the original residents of that place, and now these mega mansions have sprung up around her modest, lovely lot with a 2 car garage, and it’s just amazing because we show up and we’re like, “hey, what’s up!”
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I’ve been here for 30 years! {laughs} And yeah, that’s kind of been the 4th of July tradition is to go out there and cause trouble at Lake Quivira for the last 30 some years. But this year, because of {reh-reh}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: The baby, I thought it would probably be just a little bit too late and a little bit too loud, so we just hung out around here with some friends until the epic meltdown of summer 2015 baby wise, and got the baby home probably by about 8 o’clock to go to bed, and that was my 4th of July. I did have an oatmeal stout, though, everybody can freak out because it is not gluten free, it is a milk stout, it is a gluteny beer.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Was it delicious?
Liz Wolfe: It is. It was delicious. It is, let’s see, it’s called Buffalo Sweat, that’s what it’s called.
Diane Sanfilippo: I asked that as somebody who understands that beer is delicious to many people.
Liz Wolfe: Yes. I always liked beer a little bit more than wine. But this one is from a brewery in Manhattan, Kansas, I think. And supposedly certain types of dark beer can help with milk production, so that’s my whole excuse.
Diane Sanfilippo: #eatenforboobjuice.
Liz Wolfe: Exactly.
Diane Sanfilippo: #drinkingforboobjuice.
Liz Wolfe: Drinking for boob juice. So that was that. That was my 4th.
Diane Sanfilippo: The only other update I have that is biz related versus life related is, I’m trying to think, this episode will air on Thursday. I’m sending out on Monday, so if you did not get this email and you’re on my emailing list, or if you don’t think you opened it, maybe go check your email again, but I’m sending out an email that will be Monday of this week to just kind of get some feedback from you guys about some things about the website. We’re actually in the middle of a website redesign right now on Balanced Bites, and there’s a handful of details I’m just trying to hammer down, hammer out, whatever {laughs} figure out, and just wanting to make the site as user friendly and useful to you as possible, because there are always things that I’ve got ideas about, but I definitely want to hear from you guys. If you haven’t seen that email yet, and you know you’re on my email list, check back in there. The easiest way to make sure you’re getting my emails is just to do a quick search for in your inbox.
I actually set up, Liz I don’t know if you do this, too, but I set up a little filter for all the email newsletters that I get, and pretty much once a day I just check my little filter; I use Gmail, so I just check my little newsletters filter so I can see everyone’s newsletters kind of when I’m ready to look at them. I don’t know, I find that that keeps my inbox a little bit clearer, but I also make sure that I’m getting those messages, so you can figure out how to set up a little filter for emails from, and you’ll be able to find my emails. So there’s that.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm. That sounds, I wasn’t listening. I’m sorry. But it sounded ingenious. I heard Gmail, filters, something like that.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I hear phantom baby noises all the time, so I was tuning in for that. I’m sorry.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: I’m sorry! Things have changed. It’s terrible.
Diane Sanfilippo: it’s ok! I don’t even hear the cat when he cries really loudly across the hall, and Scott’s like, you don’t hear that? It’s so loud.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m like, I don’t hear that well. It’s not my best innate skill. It’s not my best sense. I have an excellent sense of taste.
Liz Wolfe: So basically you’re saying you’re a terrible listener and it’s not your fault.
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m just kind of deaf. Certain pitches I don’t hear. I probably wouldn’t hear a baby crying, like, that’s not super loud. Anyway, I don’t hear the cat crying and he just finds it appalling that I don’t hear it. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Poor Mason.
Diane Sanfilippo: I know. He’s curled up right here right now, so he’s living just find. Alright Liz, other updates from you?
2. A new thing I’m into lately: Wonder Weeks and Baby wearing [10:37]
Liz Wolfe: Alright, so now and then when I have something helpful or interesting to share, baby/mother related, I’m going to do that, and this week I wanted to share an app, it’s also a book. A book and an app called the Wonder Weeks. It has been really, really helpful to me. Basically what it does is it gives you an idea of when your little one is going through what they call leaps. And these are more mental leaps than physical leaps, so it’s not so much a growth spurt, which is also gnarly and it’s one of those things where you’ve just got to get through it. Put your head down and nurse, nurse, nurse, and get through it.
But what the Wonder Weeks does is it actually tells you when your baby is working on something mentally. So, if your baby was in the leap called, I think there’s one called events, I think there’s one called relations, no smooth transitions, there’s one called relationships, sequences. It’s all very interesting, but you can open up this app and see exactly about when that’s going to happen, and what you can expect from your baby. A lot of times they get a lot fussier, they get a little less happy, a little bit more erratic, and a little bit more clingy, and it sometimes helps just to have a reason why that’s going on.
I remember before I found out about this whole Wonder Weeks deal, there were times when I was like, oh my gosh I lost my sweet little baby! And no, that wasn’t the case. She was just working on something in her brain or going through a growth spurt, and so it really helps to be able to open up Wonder Weeks and see exactly what she’s learning and when those abilities are going to become apparent. So, if you are pregnant or if you have a baby in the first year; definitely check out Wonder Weeks, it’s amazing. And that’s that.
Diane Sanfilippo: I feel like they should have that for your entire life.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah!
Diane Sanfilippo: Because…
Liz Wolfe: Your baby is 18 years old. She is working on not being an idiot. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I’m pretty sure, totally, I’m pretty sure parents of teenagers are like, I would really like to see what my teenager is thinking right about now. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Very true. Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: I saw a family with two or three young kids, and then a teenager who was like at another table, and the teenager was just doing the whole teenage thing, you know, being like, I’m not sitting with you.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} And like all irritated. I think we could use a Wonder Weeks for that.
Liz Wolfe: I agree. Alright, my turn again, a new thing I’m into lately. And this is one where I want people to come and comment and leave feedback and suggestions, because the new thing I’m into is baby wearing. I’m kind of into baby wearing. There is a level at which, I’m like, ok this baby needs to be playing on the floor and kind of getting to know it’s motor skills a little bit in a different type of environment. But, I am really enjoying learning more about wearing the baby; that is wrapping the baby up close to my body and going about my daily business. I have spent way too much money on way too many wraps because there is no rental service that I’m aware of near me, and the closes baby wearing international meeting is about an hour away, so of course, I just have to order them all and try them all here at my house.
I’ve got a Mei tai, I’ve got a Boba, I’ve got, ok, a Solly baby wrap, I’ve got a Happy Baby wrap, I’ve got a Baby K’tan, {laughs} I’ve got a linen ring sling.
Diane Sanfilippo: You’re speaking another language.
Liz Wolfe: I know. I know. I’ve got a mesh ring sling, what else do I have? I think that might be it. But I’m totally addicted to, at the very least, buying these apparatuses.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: These apparati. And it’s fun to try and figure out, and it’s of course very convenient. One of the things I do want to say about baby wearing is, this kind of goes back to some of the stuff that I like to read from Katie Bowman from Aligned and Well, she’s a biomechanist. We’ve had her on the podcast a couple of times, just talking about the different loads that you put on your body, and kind of how you carry things. It’s not so much that baby wearing is not a good thing as far as how you’re carrying your baby, but I do think it’s important from what I’ve kind of gleaned from Katie’s stuff, but it’s important to vary the load, and how you’re carrying, and whether you’re using some kind of apparatus to help you carry.
So I do actually do a ton of in arms carrying with the baby, so I’m not always using a wrap. I know a lot of folks just love to do it just 24/7. And that hasn’t really been workable for me for a couple of reasons. I just kind of want to do some other things, see how the baby does in different positions. As well as vary the way I’m loading my body, and the way I’m loading her body and how she’s in arms, or kind of responding to the way my body moves and how we’re moving together.
So, I love the baby wearing thing. I’m trying to find the perfect one for us that I want to use for every time we go out, and you know, I would love to hear from people if you have any ideas. And I think we could probably make a hashtag out of this. But I do need some help. The baby seems to be most comfortable in a sling, but the sling is the hardest for me to figure out. We nap the baby in the Boba, there are so many different options. So, if people have opinions, you know how people love giving opinions, I’d love to hear them.
Diane Sanfilippo: I will be a minus one; I have nothing to add to this conversation.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Load Diane’s Instagram with baby wearing advice.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Can you imagine. Well, I hope you find some good ideas. I’m sure all the mama’s out there have lots of recommendations.
Liz Wolfe: Oh yeah, can’t wait to hear it.
3. Shout Out: Balanced Bites podcast 200th episode [16:39]
Liz Wolfe: Alright, so how about a shout out? How about a shout out to us?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I think we’re going to have to repeat last weeks’ shout out, just because we have episode 200 coming up next week.
Liz Wolfe: I think it’s safe to say we’re going to make it.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} We are going to make it, and we’re going to say #BBPodcast200. So, just tag us with some crazy questions that you have, if you want to throw a picture up on your Instagram or tweet at us or what have you. I think we’ll probably each post something; let’s see, today is Thursday, maybe before this even airs you’ll have seen something or right around when it airs, but we’ll post something on Instagram for some questions and probably Facebook too, and just get you guys involved. We love our listeners, we’re grateful to you. This show has been, I want to say usually around the top 20 of all the fitness and nutrition podcasts in iTunes pretty much consistently since it launched; maybe sometimes it slips around the top 30 or so, but it’s pretty significant and I’m really proud of what we’ve done with the show. I know we constantly kind of work on the format, and just want to make sure we’re bringing people what they want to hear, plus, keeping it interesting for ourselves. Because what we’re doing, what we’re teaching, what we’re interested in evolves over time, pun intended. We just like to keep it fresh, so we’re excited to do something fun for episode 200. I don’t know, what do you think? Should we try and do an ask us anything again, or what do you think?
Liz Wolfe: Try and do what again?
Diane Sanfilippo: Like an ask us anything, or?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, that was kind of fun.
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t know. So maybe it will be an ask us anything; episode 200, ask us anything. Random questions, they don’t all have to be health related. This will be a fun time too for those of you newer listeners to get to know us a little bit. If you’ve gone back to the archives, you’ll know us pretty well over the last 4 years {laughs}.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Four years? That’s crazy. Two months shy of 4 years. That’s crazy. Crazy pants. So that sounds good. So #BBPodcast200. Ask us your questions.
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4. Extreme fatigue after eating [19:46]
Liz Wolfe: Alright, ready for questions?
Diane Sanfilippo: Indeed.
Liz Wolfe: Indeed. Alright, this one. Extreme fatigue after eating; this is from Erica. “Hi guys! I just discovered your podcast a couple of months ago, or rather let me say I just discovered podcasts in general. Ha-ha, a bit behind the electronic times. But I cannot get enough. I’ve tried other health podcasts as well, but yours is so informative, and your answers to questions are always so clear.”
Are you sure you’re listening to our podcast, Erica?
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} Alright. “Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Onto my question. I’ve suffered from severe stomach pains and irregular bowel movements for the past 6 years. I will get mild stomach aches daily with bloating and gas, but every few months I get severe pain, almost a stabbing or cramping pain in my stomach that lasts 2 to 4 hours. It’s gotten so bad at times I’ve left work because all I can do is lay down. I’ve been gluten free for 3 years; found out I have a mild allergy to cow’s milk 2 years ago so I’ve cut that out, as well. Still, with cutting out gluten and most dairy, I was still getting discomfort and bloating regularly with these sporadic stomach aches. I recently tried the autoimmune paleo diet for 2.5 weeks, and added in bone broth daily.
I felt great when doing it, and started to add in grains and nuts again. Nuts I seemed ok with, but I did notice if I ate a lot of almonds, for example, almond flour pancakes or a raw cheesecake with an almond base, I felt really bloated. When I added in the grains, 3 days later I got one of those severe stomach aches. I cut them out again, and tried adding them in more slowly. I added rice and corn chips in one meal, and a couple of hours later felt extremely exhausted. Since them, I have continued having one thing and cutting it out again; but even the smallest amount, such as a fourth of a cup of quinoa or a half a gluten free bun on separate days makes me feel extremely exhausted within hours, and sometimes even the next day. It’s a foggy type of tiredness, where I feel like I physically can’t keep my eyes open. I do not take any supplements, but have continued the bone broth.
A GI diagnosed me with IBS, but did not offer any solutions. I should also add in that I’ve had trouble getting my period since I was 18 if I’m not on a birth control pill. I’ve heard you guys mention leaky gut, SIBO, and other things, I’m wondering if you think there could be something else going on, and if so how you recommend getting tested, what type of practitioner or nutritionist should I go see. I live in LA if you have an recs; thank you so much. You guys rock.”
You think we need the additional info on this one?
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t think so. I think it’s pretty straightforward here.
Liz Wolfe: Ok. Very good. My feedback, and I know you probably have some ideas on testing and practitioners and things like that, but this just seems to me about healing and optimizing digestive function, and probably starting with, I don’t know, maybe some gallbladder support. I could be completely hammering wildly in the dark. Obviously, if something gets better when you take it out, you should probably leave it out for a little while longer while you work on healing. It’s just one of those arguments for probably one of the autoimmune meal plans in Practical Paleo, correct?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, she can definitely stick to that, or the digestive health plan might be really good, too.
Liz Wolfe: As far as testing goes.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think, you know, you could easily do some food allergy testing, but I think most of the time what comes up on food allergy test is kind of random, and we’ve talked about this on episodes way long ago. We haven’t actually talked about food allergy testing in a long time. But, typically what I’ve seen happen with a bunch of other practitioners who have done this who were more experienced than I was when I started working in one on one coaching, but they’d say that they’d send blood work to a few different labs that did food allergy testing, and it would come back with different results from each lab, kind of disproving the accuracy, perhaps, of some of that stuff. So, that’s not really the best and really what she’s doing already with her elimination and reintroduction is actually a better test, I think.
Erica has a bunch of stuff going on here. The first thing she was talking about was just the reintroduction and having the general GI upset, I think those are pretty typical reactions. She’s also talking about a quarter cup of quinoa or half a gluten free bun giving her extreme exhaustion and fatigue, a foggy fatigue. There is just one little red flag I’m thinking of here. Even if something is gluten free, you can have a food allergy or food intolerance reaction that is extreme fatigue. That’s pretty common. One of the things that tends to happen to people who are getting exposed to wheat germ agglutinin, which is a gluten derivative, is this brain fog. But I think it can actually happen with a lot of gluten free grains as well. It may be something in the future that you can eat without issue, but as you said Liz, really getting into healing the gut.
I think one of the things that people assume with gut healing is that it can take a month and they’ll be fine if they just kind of follow the protocol and add in broth. The truth is, there’s a lot more to it. I talk about the four R protocol in Practical Paleo, and that’s really a great basic place to start. I do think that working with a practitioner, LA is one of the easiest places to find an integrative or a holistic practitioner who is well versed in gut health. You can check paleo physicians network and Both of those will have different listings for people in that area, or you could check out some different paleo oriented Facebook groups and ask people for recommendations. I’m sure you’ll find something in that area.
The four R protocol, what you’re doing already is the remove stage. You’re adding in the broth, which is great, but you’re kind of going right back to the reintroduce stage after that, and there’s two other stages or steps in between. First it’s remove the offending foods; next is to repair the gut lining, and that involves things like the broth, but also supplements like L-glutamine, or possibly things like slippery elm or licorice root that can help to repair the gut lining. Some people also use aloe. Some people do things like turmeric or different anti-inflammatory supplements, so that stuff is actually covered pretty well in Practical Paleo the digestive health meal plan will cover some details on that. But I do recommend working with a practitioner, and the notes in Practical Paleo just kind of give you a little bit more information. Sometimes people leave the practitioner’s office, and they’re like, wait, why did I get this again? What does this thing do? Why am I taking these three things together? That’s really what the information in Practical Paleo is there to help you with. It’s not so you can self-prescribe, but really more to help you ground. People used to come to me with a bag of supplements, and have no idea what they were for or if they should still take them.
Removing offending foods, repairing the gut lining, then reinocculating. So looking to getting different probiotics in, whether it’s supplement wise, and that’s again, something you could work out with your practitioner if you are going to do better maybe with some supplements, or using food based probiotics, things like sauerkraut, kimchi. Sometimes kombucha works well, sometimes it doesn’t depending on your tolerance for sugar and yeasty things, and sometimes yogurt. If you’re doing ok with it; but she did say, I’m kind of giving that as a baseline for everyone, but she said that she had cut out dairy, so having an allergy to cow’s milk, you might try goat milk yogurt. Again, that’s in the re-inoculate stage, and then reintroducing foods comes after that.
I think for the general public, removing and then reintroducing is actually ok. You can go 30 days, 60 days without certain foods, reintroduce it, notice a reaction, and then you just move on with your life. But, I think something like gluten, if you’re removing gluten and you find that you react to it and you’re like, whatever, I can just deal with not eating gluten, then you just eat gluten free and it’s no big deal. But when you find that there are this many foods that affect you, or food that you really want to enjoy, you really have to take the full process ,the full four step process, the four R protocol is what it’s called. Again, that’s covered in Practical Paleo. The guide to digestion is a one-page guide right in the book. You can’t find that on my website anywhere, it’s only in the book. I don’t remember which page it’s on exactly. The only page number I have memorized is the poop pageant on page 75 {laughs}.
But the guide to your digest and guide to leaky gut, actually, both of those will have a lot more information for you. That’s kind of what I’m thinking. There’s this whole process you really have to go through, and I’m with you Liz. If something is still irritating your system, keep it out for a while. This is not a race to find out what you can reintroduce quickly, because what we’re trying to do is basically repair and re-inoculate the whole environment of your digestive system.
I don’t know if I mentioned this on the podcast before, but I think what we’ll find in the next 2 to 5 years, because it’s already a huge topic, the gut microbiome. I think what we’ll find in the next 2-5 years is that yes, gluten can be a big problem, we know from research like Dr. Alessio Fasano that gluten has the ability to act upon zonulin, which is an enzyme that can basically loosen tight junctions in the gut lining. Again, this is all stuff I cover in the book. So if you’re like, what is she talking about, I haven’t heard this before, we’ve talked about it on episodes of the show. We know that’s an action of gluten, but we also know that there are tons of people, even in the same family, possibly even twins, who can eat foods without any issue, and people who can’t. That means it can’t just be the food, right? It has to be the terrain. What the food proteins are introduced into as an environment.
I think that we’re going to find, and we are already there. I think we’re already finding this out. It’s not just the gluten as the problem, it’s the gluten and the person’s environment within their body that it’s reacting to. It’s not like everyone should never eat gluten, although that’s kind of an easier solution for most of us to just avoid it than to figure out if we can heal our body and then be able to eat it again. We may or may not be able to, that’s the thing I’m not sure about.
There’s some pretty crazy stuff going on in terms of healing for some people, even to the point of fecal transplants, which I know I don’t think we’ve talked about it on the show before, but what that does is it essentially is that re-inoculate stage of the 4 R protocol, but basically to the Nth degree. Taking the healthy gut microbiome from somebody else. It is essentially fecal matter from the large intestine, or from the colon, I’m not exactly sure where it’s from, and they’re getting it into the person who may be very, very sick. I think it’s been approved in the United States for C. difficile infections. I don’t think it’s been approved for things like Crohn’s and colitis, but I think some people are getting tested with that, or trying to test it out. I have a couple of friends, actually, who’ve been working with some doctors to try and get that going. So for people who have ongoing digestive problems, that’s kind of like the next step.
Really, the basic here is, grab the book, look at what the 4 R protocol is, see what you may or may not be doing now, and look for a practitioner, and then have the book kind of as your guide so you know what your practitioner is doing with you. Most practitioners, it’s not that you come in and they know exactly what’s wrong with you. You have to be really patient, and go through a process, and that can sometimes take 3, 6, 9 months, even a year, to go through this whole process. Because every practitioner, if they’re not a “here are your symptoms, here’s the medication, here’s the pill” type of doctor, which most naturopath, holistic, integrative practitioners are not, then they’re working with you as an individual to find out what your very individual situation is, and that takes a lot of time. That’s the real difference between the allopathic and the naturopathic approach. I think it’s just important to understand that that’s probably what you’re going to be getting into, a long process of trial and error, finding things that work, and things that maybe don’t, but really singing up for it and being ready for it.
Liz Wolfe: Very good. If you love this show, you’ll love the book.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. It’s like, I’m not trying to shoo you away from the answer that we have here, I just know that I can’t get through it all, or sometimes I love to listen to learn something, but I think we’ve probably gone through the full digestive function in a show somewhere. I think we’ve probably gone through it, but in the 4 R protocol, I know I’ve talked about it multiple times on the show in more detail, but I just can’t get everything out there that you can just look at it on paper and kind of review it over and over for yourself. I think that’s just a good way to do it.
5. Natural household and body care products [32:55]
Liz Wolfe: Okie doke. This next one is from Jessie; natural household products. “Dear Diane and Liz. Huge fan here; not only do you provide helpful and easy to understand information, you keep me smiling and laughing as I listen to your podcast. Thank you so much for that. So after listening to a podcast last night, I felt inspired to keep learning more about what changes I can make in my skin care regime, food, etc., and became immediately overwhelmed. I ended up buying new toothpaste; Orawellness, cod liver oil, oh my. There are so many things I should and could change, but I’m also trying to pay down debt and save money for a house. My question is what is your top priority list in terms of food, which I think I have down, skin care, home care, oral health, etc. I love your recommendations and your Amazon shop, and would love to see more of that from Liz as well. I have keratosis pilaris on my arms, for example, and would love more info on vitamin A and D and what brands to buy. I exercise regularly, have a standing desk at work, get 7-9 hours of sleep a night, eat about 60-80% paleo, and drink lots of water. I’m sure you get people who are overwhelmed with this question all the time, the question of how much is enough. Thank you for any help you can give.”
I totally hear the overwhelm in this question because I’ve been there. It’s like, oh my gosh! So many things I’ve been doing and I haven’t even thought about the food I eat, what I’m cleaning my house with, what I’m cleaning my body with! I have to make all the changes right now, right now, which ones? So I get it.
As far as food goes, I think we’ve talked on the podcast before, and I think both of us have talked on our websites about prioritizing good healthy food and how to make it affordable. I actually have a video on making good food affordable. It might just be about meat, I can’t remember. Where to find good meat and how to make it affordable. It’s on you can just click to the category videos and you’ll find it there.
I wanted to talk about the body care stuff. First of all, with the keratosis pilaris, which is basically that chicken skin issue that a lot of folks will have on the backs of their arms, and sometimes on legs. That is really frustrating and it is something that I dealt with for a while. I found that for most people that I worked with, and for myself, adding in some good quality cod liver oil and getting some sun was pretty much the ticket, but I also have a post on my website about keratosis pilaris. It’s called No More Chicken Skin. You can type chicken skin in the search box.
Diane Sanfilippo: If you type chicken skin into my website…
Liz Wolfe: Yeah {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: You’ll get 60 chicken thigh recipes. I’m just kidding {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I know, I so should not have named it no more chicken skin because people love chicken skin.
Diane Sanfilippo: People think you’re saying not to eat it.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: it’s no good. It’s the number one way vegans find my website! Just kidding. So, I like the fermented cod liver oil, it’s something that Diane and I have recommended for a very long time. I also love a cod liver oil that I just got the chance to try, over the last couple of months, I order through Corganics. It’s extra virgin cod liver oil. I wouldn’t concern yourself too much with what extra virgin means and doesn’t mean. It’s just good stuff. And it’s a good alternative to the fermented cod liver oil. And it can be really helpful for KP.
What else? So the whole reason I ended up writing my skin care guide in the first place because I was this person. I was Jessie. I wanted to figure out not only how to heal my skin, but what to eat, and what to use on my body, and how to clean my house, and I wanted to know all of the different dangers of the products that I had been using and what to switch it out for. Really the most budget friendly option, and I’ve talked about this a million times, is just using baking soda and apple cider vinegar for everything. Or baking soda and white vinegar. It’s so cost effective.
I still occasionally wash my hair using the no poo method. But because I don’t generally shower anymore {laughs} with a new baby in the house, I haven’t been doing that too much lately. But the no poo method just uses baking soda and vinegar. You can clean your counters and your entire house with vinegar. You can scrub pretty much anything with baking soda. So that’s a great way to get started where you’re trying to save money. Branch Basics is a good homecare line for cleaning your house.
Let’s see, what else does she ask about; new toothpaste, Orawellness supplement. Love all of that stuff. The good thing about the Orawellness blend, which is basically an essential oil blend I think in almond oil, for oral health is that a little bit goes a really long way. So any time you’re using anything with essential oils in it, a little bit goes a very long way. So that’s a great choice.
I don’t know; this is like, there are a lot of questions wrapped into this one question. But I think just take a deep breath, stay with the basics, and switch things out as you are ready and prepared to do so. Because when you try and figure it all out at once, it can be really, really overwhelming, and then you just want to shut down and do none of the things. So one thing at a time; go through the body care category on my website and you’ll find a ton of stuff for what to switch out.
Diane Sanfilippo: I am thinking that the other thing she was curious about is what would you prioritize; what would you do first, what’s most important, so I think the brands you recommended there were great, and I know on your website you do have a lot more, but, you can stop me if these are not the order that you would go in, but I tend to think about what we put in our body in terms of food, that goes in and is building our cells and everything, our tissues, I do prioritize that. There are different strokes for different folks; it doesn’t sound like Jessie is dealing a specific health challenge or something like that. If you were dealing with multiple chemical sensitivities or something really intense or serious, that’s having any kinds of detergents or potentially toxic detergents or cleaners or any of that in the house might be a bigger priority than getting your food to a certain level. You know what I mean, of paleoness or whatever the case may be. I would say, she says 60-80% paleo, drink lots of water, just I would prioritize food and food quality first. That is what I do.
We probably spend the biggest amount of money, just our housing, or mortgage or rent or what have you, and then food thereafter. That’s really about sourcing the best quality food that we can using animal shares and prioritizing getting healthy fats and all of that. I would really look at that first. So if you’re not buying organic produce and all of that, that’s kind of where I would allocate money first, and when you’re looking at skin care, body care, home care, I tend to think the stuff that stays on your body, that can be absorbed, I put that as a priority over something that might rinse off.
I know we all kind of have different priorities there, but for example, putting coconut oil on my skin instead of lotion, that’s really a priority for me. But I don’t use the no poo method; I still use the standard shampoo. One thing I did do, though, was switch to only washing my hair like twice a week. So I’ve definitely reduced my exposure there. And then things like soaps that I’m washing my hands with very regularly; now I have a Redmond soap that they sent me. It does foam because of the container that it’s in, but I think it’s all super clean. Liz, maybe you can look at the ingredients, but the Redmond company sent me some soaps pretty recently, and it looked like it was pretty clean ingredients, like essential oils and things like that.
That’s kind of where I tend to go. I still use a lot of hair care products that are definitely not natural; but again, I really think this is where folks who are dealing with different health challenges, that’s where prioritizing getting all your ducks in a row becomes so much more important. There are a lot of things you can do to get healthier and live a healthier life that don’t actually cost money. You even mentioned getting out in the sun to help with the KP on her arms. That absolutely does it for me. If for some reason it flares up at all; I haven’t had it in a really long time. I think eating the grass-fed ghee from Tin Star, who was one of our sponsors recently, I feel like that’s gotten a good amount of vitamin A into my diet. I don’t know that it’s a huge amount, it’s not like liver, but it’s definitely some, and also getting the sunshine is helping that. So getting good sleep, all that stuff that’s she’s already talking about, it’s going to go a really long way.
So, I would just kind of build yourself a priority list in that way, where you think about what’s maybe going to have the biggest impact, and if you’re not really sure about some of the household things, just make a big list and then just kind of keep checking things off as you go along, and you can go from there. Definitely don’t stress about too much. I absolutely don’t have a perfectly paleo everything in my kitchen, household, bathroom, what have you. It’s not perfect, so do not stress.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, number one thing, don’t stress.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Ok.
6. Gluten and diverticulitis [42:43]
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, I think we have one more question here.
Liz Wolfe: This one is from Heather; gluten and diverticulitis. “Hi ladies! Love the podcast, and am a huge fan of you both. I’m 30 years old, and at the age of 26 I had my first diverticulitis attack. It was bad; I was in the hospital for 3 days. The doctors told me “eat more fiber, drink more water”, which made no sense to me, because at the time I drank a ton of water and ate a good amount of fiber. They had me do a colonoscopy, and found 3 diverticuli on the right side of my colon, which is not typical. Anyway, that was it for treatment, and I just went on my way trying to eat a ridiculous amount of fiber.
About a year and a half to two years later, it happened again and again I was sent to the hospital for 3 days. The second attack was by far the worst. Then, finally, this year I had my third attack. For the last 3 months previous to the attack, I was eating mostly an autoimmune paleo diet, and slipped up here and there, but was pretty good about avoiding gluten. I went cake tasting for my upcoming wedding, and two days later I had an attack. My nutritionist thinks this means I have a severe gluten intolerance, and should avoid at all costs. My GI doctor said it’s just my bad luck and could just continue to happen because of the location of the diverticula, and possibly surgery is my best bet.
I guess I’m at a loss. I’m ok with avoiding gluten for the rest of my life, but honestly I’m scared to eat anything now. I feel like, without knowing it’s gluten for sure, I could have another attack. These attacks knock me out for 2 weeks, I miss work, and have to take antibiotics, which I hate being on. I live in fear this could happen again. That being said, this attack was the least painful, and I did not have to stay in the hospital again, which is good. Have you heard of a gluten/diverticulosis connection? Have you seen young, healthy, active people have diverticulitis attacks? Do you think it makes sense that gluten would cause this? Could any food intolerance cause diverticula to develop? Help! Any advice or direction would be great. I feel so lost at this point.”
Do you need any more info for this?
Diane Sanfilippo: No, I think that, she does mention struggling with acne and recurrence of eczema since childhood so that’s kind of interesting. Exercise a lot, 4-6 times a week, weight lifting, high intensity, varying things up. There’s a few things here; I’m not an expert of diverticulitis specifically, but there are a lot of possible complications. I would very first and foremost; and we have our disclaimer, we are not medical professionals, we are not doctors. I would recommend getting a second opinion from another GI doctor.
You don’t want to mess around with this stuff. You don’t want to mess with possible inflammation in your gut that you don’t know really what’s causing it and it’s knocking you out to the point where you’re in the hospital for that long. Being knocked out for 2 weeks, I don’t really know what she means by that, but if it means you’re kind of bed ridden for 2 weeks, that’s a very, very serious implication. That’s not one bout of diarrhea, or a day, or you have the runs. Two weeks that you’re in bed or not able to really function normally is a really big deal. It could be something that I don’t know for sure, I’m not trying to say this to kind of seem scary or what have you, but it could be something that leads to something much more serious; Crohn’s or ulcerative colitis. You definitely don’t want to take these small signs.
I remember, a long time ago {laughs}, it’s kind of a crazy analogy, but Oprah used to talk about these things where she’s like, first something comes as a whisper, and then it comes as a louder voice, and a shout, and then it smacks upside the head, and then it’s a brick wall, and it just knocks you the heck down. So if right now this is already shouting at you, like something’s going on, don’t let it get to the point where it becomes that brick wall, where it really knocks you down. If you’re trying to avoid surgery, I just would go to another doctor. Find out if you can avoid it, if there’s some other recommendation that he or she might have, or if surgery is an answer that you need to have these removed, and then perhaps the food that you’re eating going forward will prevent them from forming again. It’s hard to really know.
There’s a couple of things here, too. Talking about the fiber that she was eating; generally what I know about diverticulitis, a ton of insoluble fiber is not always the best idea, so we’re talking there about nuts, seeds, grains, leafy greens, and I’m going to talk about Practical Paleo again, but the digestive health meal plan in there does cover this kind of stuff. When you’re talking about fiber for dealing with diverticulitis, what you want to get is a little bit more of the soluble fiber, so that’s something like butternut squash, any kind of winter squash, sweet potato, the inside, so the soft carby stuff and not the tougher to digest stuff that potentially could go through your digestive system and come out looking at all similar to how it looked when it went in. We didn’t ask her about what her eliminations are looking like, but generally when you have these diverticula what makes them inflame more is anything that gets stuck. So you really don’t want to be eating that kind of food that could potentially get stuck and cause that inflammation and irritation.
Absolutely, there can be a gluten connection there. There could be just a very high insoluble fiber connection there. Young, healthy, active people we’ve seen develop anything and everything. One of our good friends, Kristen from Living, Loving Paleo, I believe she has Crohn’s disease, and I believe she had a whole section of her intestines removed, and that was really intense. I think she might be just about 30. So check out her story, and that might be a good place to kind of look at what she was experiencing and see what’s going on there.
I would definitely try and get a new GI doctor. I would potentially look for, again, what I was talking about before with the digestive issues, a holistic, integrative, naturopath someone like that who can maybe work on balancing things out with you in terms of, should you maybe look at eliminating FODMAPs. Should you look at really being strictly grain free, and really doing this paleo thing full time, because if that’s what’s going to make you feel better.
I guess, I’m kind of in the place where you’ve been avoiding gluten, and you were feeling like it was bugging you, and then you ate it for this cake testing, I probably wouldn’t eat your own wedding cake when the time comes if you got a cake that has gluten in it, and you’ve had this reaction. It’s not worth it; it’s just not worth it. I know it can seem really silly, and it can seem like it shouldn’t be a big deal. But you have to remember that there are people with food allergies too, someone who is allergic to peanuts, it’s no big deal for someone else to eat peanuts but it’s a big deal for them. So if this is something that you’re not even sure about, but this is the reaction that you get, I think it’s serious enough to take it seriously and assume that that’s what you need to avoid, and move forward in that way and just continue to avoid it.
Sometimes there are different reasons for the gut irritation from the gluten. I think it’s just kind of a bummer if you’re doctor is like, oh I think it’s just bad luck. I mean, I think it’s time to get another opinion there, as well.
Liz Wolfe: Nobody wants to celebrate their honeymoon with a diverticulosis issue.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. We were actually ordering {laughs} we’re actually ordering gluten free cupcakes from Kyra’s Bake Shop. She’s in the Portland area, so we’re going to have her ship cupcakes separately from the frosting, and we’re just going to pipe them. I don’t know who we is; Hayley said that she could probably do it. Maybe she’ll be piping some cupcakes at our wedding, but yeah we are getting some gluten free stuff because I just wasn’t going to not have a little cupcake at the wedding. {laughs} So there’s that.
Liz Wolfe: We are thrilled to have Paleo Treats back on our sponsor roster. We love their treats, from the Mustang bar to the Bandito and everything in between. They have been serving the paleo community since 2009, and were recently recognized by FedEx as one of the top 10 small business in America. Which of course, speaks to how much paleo and healthy eating is growing, but it also speaks to how passionate our friends Nick and Lee and the Paleo Treats team are about what they do. Use the code BALANCEDBITES one word, no space at for 10% off. They’ll be at the 2015 Crossfit games at the end of July, and would love to meet any Paleo Treats or Balanced Bites fans who want to drop by.
7. Diane’s Kitchen tip: coffee replacements [51:39]
Liz Wolfe: Alright, how about a little kitchen tip, Diane?
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. Quickly, I’ve had a bunch of people ask me about coffee replacements, and I’m going to have to be completely transparent right now because I cannot tell a lie.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: This kitchen tip question is about coffee replacement; I’ve actually been drinking coffee again. I’m totally torn on this, because I like it so much, and it’s summer, and I’ve been enjoying some cold brew, and I’ve been feeling pretty good with it. I’m going to monitor my own sleep for the next month or so while I’m home. It’s tough for me to tell sometimes when I’m traveling what’s affecting my sleep, if it is the coffee in the morning or what is it. But I was drinking it a little bit more regularly right before I went to San Francisco a couple of weeks ago, and then I was waking up at 5 a.m. every day when I was in San Francisco, and I was like, well I’m going to have some coffee this morning, and then I was sleeping just fine.
So I think for me there’s a combination of things happening where if I’m having the coffee between 8 and noon, which is a little bit later in the day, and I’m not super active all day. Maybe I work out but I’m not physically moving a lot the rest of the day. In San Francisco I’ll walk to a coffee shop, whatever, and I’m walking half a mile each way, and I’m walking in between. That physical activity and sunshine in between actually helps me sleep a lot better regardless of the coffee. So I’m obviously tuned into the fact that all of that stuff matters and it’s not just the coffee, but I know tons of folks are working in an office or inside not moving all day, which is kind of my standard life while I’m here, which is one of the reasons why we’re moving, because I’m not happy doing that anymore.
So anyway, this tip is on coffee replacements. Do you want to read the question, or should I just go ahead and say who it was from, and we’ll just kind of get into a few ideas here?
Liz Wolfe: Oh my, there was an actual question attached to it.
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s ok, no worries. So, it was a question from Natalie, and she just said coffee replacements at home; she was seeing pictures from it, she probably asked this a few months ago. I had a few that I was trying, but I really never got to any that I loved other than honestly using a Swiss water processed decaf, organic decaf that I got from Whole Foods, and I like that just fine. I would make a single cup drip, I would grind it and then do that single cup where it’s like a pour over. I like that, and I think that worked really well for me. So I don’t have a problem with that, I think that’s a good way to go.
There are some others. There’s Teeccino and there’s Dandy Blend. But there was another one that I was going to talk about, and it’s not being sold anymore. I think it was called Herbal Remedy or something, but the woman is going to put the business just kind of off and not run it anymore just because of some FDA regulations that are making it really tough to have a home based business that’s kind of selling that type of food.
Anywho, I know Simone over at Zenbelly, you can follow her at Zenbelly on Instagram, she was drinking this Herbal Remedy version, so I’m sure she’ll be looking for another variety, but there are some different homemade options. So you could probably do a Google for homemade herbal coffee or homemade coffee replacement, and you’ll find things with chicory and carob and dandelion give it that bitter, nutty, kind of cocoay coffee taste. And you can brew something using that.
Then she was asking, “do you have any experience with smokers? My husband and I recently purchased a digital smoker, and we’d like to make more than just chicken and ribs.” That was a combined question, so I’m reading, but I do not. I will tell you, you can probably ask Bill Staley at Primal Palate, I think they have a smoker. Actually, when I first read that, I was like, smoker, with cigarettes? No, she meant {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: She meant smokers, like a meat smoker. So no I don’t, but he could probably help you out.
Liz Wolfe: We have a Traeger smoker, and we just make chicken and ribs, so there you go.
Diane Sanfilippo: That sounds good.
Liz Wolfe: Natalie, please let me know what you make with your smoker. Alright, so I guess that’s it for this week. You can find me, Liz, at and you can find Diane at Join our email lists for free goodies and updates; I just sent out a free goodie the other day, a free guide for my 5 tips to better health.
Diane Sanfilippo: I got it; it was great.
Liz Wolfe: Right?!
Diane Sanfilippo: I love it.
Liz Wolfe: So good! And it’s not just about food, so there you go. And you’ll find updates you don’t find anywhere else on our websites or on the podcast, so sign. And while you’re on the internet, please leave us an iTunes review. See you next week.

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