Liz Talks, Episode 44: Interview with See Ya Later, Ovulator author & hormone expert Esther Blum, RD

See Ya Later, Ovulator author Esther Blum, RD, stops by to chat bioidentical hormones, perimenopause and hormonal life cycles, self-advocacy, favorite comedians, and more!

Liz Talks Episode 44

  • Introducing podcast guest, Esther Blum [2:27]
  • Eat, Drink, and Be Gorgeous [12:00]
  • Doctors and nutrition [19:24]
  • Get ahead of menopause [25:20]
  • Walking the walk [34:51]
  • Bioidentical hormones [43:26]

TRANSCRIPT

Welcome to Liz Talks. I’m Liz, and I’m a nutritional therapy practitioner and best-selling author; but here, I’m 0% professional and 100% mom, spouse, friend, and over-analyzer. We’re going to talk food, beauty, family, fitness, mental health, friendship, marriage, and everything in between in this season of Liz Talks, and I’m so glad you’re along for the ride.

Remember; this is a podcast about thoughts, feelings, and opinions. And I definitely do not give individual, personal, or medical advice. 

This is episode 44, topic: Interview with See You Later Ovulator author, Esther Blum, RD. 

In case you missed it, last weeks’ episode 43 was one with yours truly. It was another Q&A with some updates from the first few weeks of school and talking about the Reggio educational approach that we chose. 

Before I begin, I want to thank Arrowhead Mills because they sponsor this podcast. Podcasting is a labor of love, and it takes time and sweat equity. And to have a company put their faith in my work and support my small business is really life changing for me. Arrowhead Mills was focused on sustainable farming long before it was cool, and that’s part of what attracted me to this sponsorship, and their range of products from cereals, to corn meal, to premade gluten free pancakes; which we do every weekend, are a choice I feel really good about for my family.

So, the next time you go to the store, look for Arrowhead Mills products. You can also find them on Vitacost.com. 

I also want to remind you again about an affiliate that I absolutely love, and that’s Vibrant Body Company. If you have not yet traded your uncomfortable, awful, lymph restricting braw for a Vibrant Body bra, please do not wait any longer. Use code LIZ15, all caps, and go to RealFoodLiz.com/Vibrant

Their bras are amazingly comfortable, no wire, they’re certified clean bra. Super, super soft and comfortable. Their shelfy tank is amazing, and so is their underwear. All of them are made with this cooling fabric that just feels so good. So even if you think you’re good with what you’ve got; and trust me, I did too. I was all sports bras all the time. And even those really super soft ones from Lulu just cannot hold a candle to this suit of products. I am fully converted, and I know you will be too. 

RealFoodLiz.com/Vibrant. Use code LIZ15 all caps for 15% off. 

  • Introducing podcast guest, Esther Blum [2:27]

Now; before I begin today’s podcast, I want to say a few very important things. First, as you’ve noticed, I’m leaning into this just start talking structure to the podcast without the big formal introductions, and what’s your story type of questions. Mostly because those are the kinds of conversational podcasts that I like to listen to. I love getting to know the person and their expertise, not just what they have to say about their latest project or their professional work.

And I’d love some continued feedback on this. So reach out to me @RealFoodLiz on Instagram, or reply to any one of my emails if you’re on my email list. Being on my email list opens up that one on one line of communication. I check all of my emails. I can’t respond to all of them, but I do get all of them, and I see them. 

Next, I want to give a quick content warning here. You might not know this, but a marginally well-placed expletive is something I’m very fond of in the right circumstances. And this episode is no exception. So there is some language here, and also perhaps some references to the more sardonic, ironic, sarcastic, and even subversive comedy that some folks are not comfortable with.

So I also want to inform you that we talk briefly. I mean, truly touch very lightly on what is going on in the world today around transgender hormone therapy. And I know this is a very loaded and difficult; but also necessary topic to turn over. But I can also say that I am not an expert on it. Or the resources available to people transitioning, or to people who are struggling, or not struggling, with gender dysphoria or their gender identity. 

So it’s simply impossible for me to be an expert on everything. Or even a few things. So I’m very quick to point that out. And I hope that this is a sufficient disclaimer, ahead of still choosing to have a brief and I believe hopefully compassionate and earnest exchange about the topic on this podcast. I personally don’t think that you have to keep your mouth shut entirely until you’re an expert on something. That’s so limiting to the average person learning anything. And questions and ponderings are important. 

At the same time; you do have to be; and by you, I mean me. You do have to be compassionate and open if you’re dipping your toes into topics you don’t fully grasp. So I truly hope that nothing said here will be taken as insensitive or unkind. Rather as an openness to the broader conversation. So, please. If you are listening and you do have more stake in the conversation than I do, reach out. I’m open, and if two open hearts can meet on this topic, I think we will make progress. 

Ok, leading with that, I am so happy to intro today’s podcast. This was one of my favorite conversations I’ve had for this podcast. And it is an interview with Esther Blum, Gorgeous Esther on Instagram. And she is the author of the new book, See You Later, Ovulator. Which, is that not the best title ever? {laughs} 

The book is coming out on October 6th. So if you want to get your copy ASAP, you need to order it right away. Pre-order it. Because this is coming out just a few days before book release. 

So again; if you’re listening and the day is before October 6th, go preorder it now. Especially if you are ordering a physical copy. Because I believe this book is going to shatter ever expectation and you want to get your copy from that first run. You don’t want to wait. 

Now, one of the reasons I’m so interested in Esther’s work is because I’ve realized that I’m suddenly in a different age bracket than I used to be. Approaching 40 is this strange space where I’m thinking; man. Maybe I want to have another baby. But I’m also hearing things like; perimenopause is considered the years between 20 and 60. Which just totally freaks me out. It unmoors me for a bit. I mean, you’re 30s; they’re your youth. And then all of a sudden, we start getting AARP ads served to us. Right? 

So I feel sort of between two worlds. Not Between Two Ferns, which we actually talk about in this episode. But I do want to be prepared and informed. And that starts with Esther. 

I’m also interested in her work because she has amazing energy and is just magnetic in the best way. So here’s a bit more about Esther. Esther Blum is an integrative dietician and menopause expert. In the past 27 years, she has helped thousands of women master menopause through nutrition, hormones, and self-advocacy. Esther is the best-selling author of See You Later Ovulator; Cave Women Don’t Get Fat. Which, by the way we talk about that in this podcast. It’s a really, really funny connection. Eat, Drink, and be Gorgeous. Secrets of Gorgeous. and the Eat, Drink, and be Gorgeous project. 

Esther was voted best nutritionist by Manhattan Magazine. And she’s appeared on Dr. Oz, the Today Show, Fox News Live. She’s been quoted all over the place, including in Time Magazine, the New York Post, the Los Angeles Times, In Style, Self, Fitness, Marie Claire, and Cosmo. I myself have been quoted in OK Magazine, which is still my claim to fame. And it’s almost the same thing, right? 

Esther received a Bachelor of Science in clinical nutrition from Simmons College in Boston, and she’s a graduate of New York University, where she received her Master of Science in Clinical Nutrition. So she’s credentialed as a registered dietician, a certified dietician nutritionist, and a certified nutrition specialist (CNS) which is a certification from the board for certification of nutrition specialists (BCNS). If you care about all the letters and the acronyms. 

She’s also a member of the American Dietetic Association, Dieticians and Functional Medicine, Nutritionists and Complementary Care, and the Connecticut Dietetic Association. So she basically has 7 Esther’s doing the work of one Esther. 

She lives in Connecticut with her family, where she can be seen cooking up a storm, going for long hikes, and blasting 80s music by the fire pit. Let’s launch into this interview with Esther Blum.

Esther Blum: Hi! 

Liz Wolfe: We did it! {laughs} 

Esther Blum: Sorry, sorry. I was looking through emails. My computer just gives me the bird every day. I cannot find emails to save my life. {laughs} 

Liz Wolfe: I’m going to be talking right into your face. I’m already recording.

Esther Blum: Perfect.

Liz Wolfe: I’m wanting to do this sort of performance art type thing where we just go. 

Esther Blum: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: But this has just been; like I told you. It’s just been this comedy of errors getting us scheduled. 

Esther Blum: {laughs} 

Liz Wolfe: Which I’m so glad we have a mutual friend; Diana Rodgers, who hopefully vouched for me. But at this point you’re probably like; how has this person achieved any measure of success?

Esther Blum: {laughs} 

Liz Wolfe: She literally can’t do anything.

Esther Blum: No, I’m thinking; this is all on par with branding and being a mom and normalizing the messy. And that’s ok. Like, it doesn’t ever have to be perfect. No one is perfect. I just recorded a podcast with Gwyneth Paltrow for Goop, her Zoom conked out twice. We ended up going on my Zoom. That’s just life, you know? 

Liz Wolfe: Oh thank god for that. 

Esther Blum: You know what? It’s like the best gift for me, as a Virgo, who was so perfectionistic. And now I’m like; I guess I’ll just make it up as I go. It’s been the ultimate lesson in just surrender and just chilling the heck out. I don’t know if I can swear on this podcast. 

Liz Wolfe: I think light swearing is ok. That’s definitely my MO in daily life. 

Esther Blum: OK.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t know if that gives us a warning or not. But you can see the background here. So I’ll just tell everybody; I was just all over the place. Like; I’m so excited to talk to you. But for some reason, this entire situation of getting us scheduled and getting us going has been; you know when you’re a waitress and there’s that one table. And they’re a great table, but you just keep screwing up the table. You know? Not clearing the beer bottles. Not bringing them their food. And I just kept not clearing your beer bottles and not bringing you your food. 

So today, I had the times mixed up. So I’m here at my parents house. My mom is putting the 2-year-old down. The 7-year-old is in the back room on her iPad. I’m set up here. I get here, I get everything set up, and I realized I forgot my microphone. So that’s why I’m talking right into the computer. So hopefully we can optimize some of the sound. And it still sounds great. But I think it will be fine. 

Esther Blum: Well, it is so nice to be here, and so nice to meet you, finally. Because I love your brand of comedy. 

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} 

Esther Blum: Like; welcome the S-show. Welcome to the jungle, basically.

Liz Wolfe: Yes. 

Esther Blum: And the sarcasm. It’s really; I think it’s so relevant and important. It’s just a great way to crack open conversations around potentially controversial issues.

Liz Wolfe: Well, I hope so. And I was thinking the other day that there’s nothing like the internet to make you realize you’re not that funny. {laughs} There’s just so many people out there making such funny content. But I guess what matters is that you connect with the people that you’re meant to connect with. 

Esther Blum: Yeah. And that people feel seen and heard is really; if you’re the voice of thousands and thousands of women, then you’re doing your job, in my opinion. You must get women all the time who are like; you’re me! You’re describing me! Are you peering in my windows right now? That’s how you know you’re heading in the right direction. 

  • Eat, Drink, and Be Gorgeous [12:00]

Liz Wolfe: I’ve definitely found my people. Ok, I do have a question for you though. This is totally out of left field, but I don’t want to forget about it. Will you tell me about this amazing book you wrote in your 20s? 

Esther Blum: OK, so that book was Eat, Drink, and be Gorgeous. And the whole motto was; your body may be a temple, but who says it can’t be a nightclub? 

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} 

Esther Blum: And so {laughs} this book was like the most cosmic download; I had been reading through. You know; I sometimes read nutrition books. I found them kind of boring, to be quite frank. And just really restrictive and unfun. And I was like; cranberry juice and all these pills. I don’t understand. This isn’t landing with me at all. 

Sex in the City was big at the time. I had a private practice. I was single and dating. And I was like; I am going to write a nutrition book that is fun, and sexy, and that is exactly what I did. And to this day, I think it sold like 50,000 copies. Which, you know, for book sales is pretty darn good. And that was the day before on the internet; it was in like Anthropology and Papyrus and all these great stores. Like Chronicle Books was amazing.

Liz Wolfe: Yes! 

Esther Blum: But it was really fun. And it resonated with people, because it was like; there was a lot of humor in it. I had a chapter on PMS and breakups. I had a chapter on hangover recovery. Which; you know Liz, I had to personally research for that chapter. I mean, come on.

Liz Wolfe: Obviously.

Esther Blum: I had to. Obviously. And then there was a chapter on just having a really healthy relationship with food at the end of the day. And here are some great, healthy foods to eat. But at the end of the day; pleasure is the best nutrient of all. So that was really the messaging.

And yes, there’s great protocols in there. And it is a solid nutrition book. But it’s a lot more info-taining, as well. 

Liz Wolfe: That’s; if I wanted to have a brand, that would be what I want my brand to be. Is info-tainment. Because it’s just; it can get so stodgy. Well, you’re a registered dietician, so you probably went through all the stodgy, clinical, rotations, rounds, all of that stuff. What was that like to fit your personality into that structure? 

Esther Blum: So I’m a total nerd. And I grew up, my dad was a dermatologist, my mom was a nurse. My grandfather was an ENT surgeon. So my grandfather; when I told him I was going to be a dietetic student and not go to med school, he was like; what are you doing. You’re never going to be a success. You’re never going to make any money. And I was like; oh yeah? Watch me. {laughs} 

I loved the science. I love the hospitals. I love the doctors and just social aspect was; again, single in your 20s. You know? But after years. And I worked in the CCUs. I worked in the cardiology units. I was working with AIDS patients at the time, because AIDS was very new on the scene. But anybody from diabetes to liver transplant to; it was mostly cardiac issues. And I worked on a more holistic unit, actually. Which is so funny; what a seed to plant. It was called the plain tree unit, Beth Israel in New York. Which, that hospital isn’t even there anymore. It’s gone. 

But the science part of me loved it. I did get burned out because I did get very emotionally attached to my patients; some of who died, and that was always really upsetting. But then the other piece that was frustrating was; A) a lot of doctors did not respect or want to listen to what I had to say. And there’s a whole sidebar conversation we can have about that. But B) seeing someone for 10 minutes who has just had a massive coronary event, and then saying; oh, here’s your diet instruction. Follow this please. And then never seeing them again, not having any continuity. I was like; I’m not making a difference. What is the bloody point? 

I really, A) and B); I wanted to; I’m probably up to letter like D or E now. I can’t even do the alphabet. {laughs} 

Liz Wolfe: It’s good.

Esther Blum: But A to Z, I was like; I really want to get in preventatively. And help people long before they’ve had heart attacks and get to this point. So I went and took a functional medicine course while I was at the hospital. And I had a bachelor’s and a master’s in clinical nutrition, and I was furious. because I’m like; here are all these studies on the benefits of nutrients. Where was this in my grad school education? Where was my $50,000 in tuition. Which was nothing by today’s standards. But, you know, that took me a long time to pay off on a hospital dietician’s salary.

So where was all that information? So I left the hospital. I went to work for a functional medicine doctor part time, and then had a private practice part time. And then just grew the practice and kept writing books. Because I was like; this information is out there. The studies are out there. Doctors don’t credit the studies. 

I interviewed a colleague of mine who is a family practice doctor I knew from the hospital. And I was like; you ordered ever test I asked you for. Why don’t other doctors order the tests? And he said; I order tests for you because you’re my friend. But, no doctor wants to order a test that is going to have an abnormal result that they are not responsible for; A.

Liz Wolfe: Wow.

Esther Blum: And B); right? Ok, very, very enlightening. And then the second thing he said was; by the way, the studies. I said, why isn’t nutrition on the med school curriculum? I’m curious. He said; because the studies aren’t really valid. There’s no good studies on nutrients. I said; hi. Have you heard of Jeffery Bland, the father of functional medicine? Have you heard of all the doctors practicing functional medicine? And he said; no. Those studies are not valid. Maybe vitamin D has a few studies. He said; you can go ahead and practice nutrition. But don’t call it evidence-based medicine. 

Liz Wolfe: Wow! Linus Paulin is turning over in his grave. Right? 

Esther Blum: And I just; I had to burst out laughing. It’s like arguing with someone from the opposite political party who has absolutely no insight of the history of this country. So on either side. You could say that on either side.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Yeah.

Esther Blum: So that’s where we are with nutrition. We’re considered rogues or renegades or just alternative practitioners. But trust me, everything I do is evidence based, and the studies I look at; I try to really differentiate between really solid studies and poorly designed studies. And sometimes I need help from better experts than me. It’s really not my wheelhouse to understand the exact science behind all the studies. That I sometimes struggle with myself. So imagine how the regular consumer feels, and is like; I don’t know who to believe. Was the study sponsored by Coca-Cola? Was it sponsored by Big Ag or Big Pharma? Who are the special interest groups? 

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Who is behind this. Well one of the things that I love to do is collaborate with experts. And talk to people like you; bring you on, ask my questions. And I think when we’re all cross talking a little bit, we just level up the entire conversation. So I think that’s really great. 

  • Doctors and nutrition [19:24]

Liz Wolfe: And I want to do your sidebar. What was the sidebar? 

Esther Blum: Oh the sidebar.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, tell me about the sidebar. 

Esther Blum: I did the sidebar with the doctor not crediting any valid nutrition and nutrients. And I will say this; what is exciting to me about nutrition and these studies is this; there is going to be. I’m going to shift gears a minute. But my next book is called See You Later Ovulator. And it’s a book on menopause. It’s how to master menopause with nutrition, hormones, and self-advocacy. And what’s happening is; we’re about to be at the tipping point of this. Because by 2030, there are going to be 1.2 billion women in menopause.

Liz Wolfe: Wow. 

Esther Blum: So I sat and did a lot of; I mean, a lot of research. And I’ve been treating menopausal women for years. And listening to webinars. And looking at the research. And analyzing thousands of hormone tests. And I can tell you that when women have; I wrote this book because I was like; I am just going to give every woman the most transparent look into what a functional medicine practice should be. How her menopause care; what it should look like. And what the trajectory should be.

So in that, I included so many studies. Many of which were shared with me by a colleague who is a doctor! {laughs} And the studies are there that support all the ways women can get ahead of menopause. And I think, at the end of the day, and on the back cover of the book it says, “Gaslight free zone.” Right? 

So if we can give women the voice and the platform and the research to go into their doctor’s offices. Whether this is for fertility. Whether it’s for basic GYN care. Whether it’s for menopause. No matter where you are in your life cycle, and hormonal cycle, and reproductive cycle. You should be able to never be dismissed by a doctor. 

It’s my mission to help every woman call out and if you go to the doctor and you say; I’m having bad periods. Right? My periods are really irregular. I’m hot flashing. I’m just not feeling well. I have really bad PMS. And they hand you a prescription for the pill, or an IUD; I want women to say; you know what? That’s actually going to suppress my hormones further. What else you got? Who can you refer me to? Or give the woman the tools she needs to find an alternative medicine; functional medicine doctor. Which, by the way, you can do at IFM.org. that’s the institute for functional medicine dot org. 

And to enable women to have a voice and self-advocacy. And call a doctor’s office and say; do you prescribe bioidentical hormones? Do you care for my medical problem? So that we don’t have to tolerate the medical model that is not serving us, or that is gaslighting us. 

And that’s not to say; there are wonderful, wonderful doctors out there. I’m not doctor bashing. But I’m saying; we’ve all been gas lit at some point.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah! And unintentionally sometimes, too, right? I mean, like you said, these aren’t necessarily bad people. These are people who are in a system who are expected to know everything when there is no reason at all that they should be expected to know everything. Doctors are not gods. So, you know, you go in and you want to talk to somebody that will say; first of all, let me listen to you. Second of all; A, 2, and D. Number 2; they will actually work with you. And D; they will say, I’m not well versed in that, let’s find you somebody who is. 

Esther Blum: Bingo. Imagine the time money and frustration that we would save women. I remember; I mean, my favorite story is not even funny but it’s so awful that it is. I had been really sick after my son was born. I wasn’t sleeping. I went down a long trajectory of healing where it turned out I had Epstein-Barr, I had Lyme disease, and I had mold. 

And the doctor; but nobody knew it then, right? And the doctor was like; he literally handed me a kabbalah. A copy of the kabbalah and told me to put it under my pillow and then gave me a prescription for Xanax. {laughs} 

Liz Wolfe: What?! I don’t even know where to put that in my head. 

Esther Blum: {laughing} Isn’t that freaking ridiculous? 

Liz Wolfe: Yes! 

Esther Blum: So ridic. So, yeah. And you know, every woman has her story where they get a nice pat on the shoulder. Even when I went to my primary care physician, right; for a different prescription for sleep medications. And I said; I really believe I’m going to heal from this all one day. And he said; you do? {laughs} It’s like, wow. Way to go.

Liz Wolfe: Nice.

Esther Blum: Way to go. So we’ve all been there. We’ve all suffered. But if we can change the trajectory. And when women get loud. And when women demand better care and say; enough women show up with the same issue demanding better care, doctors are going to change what they learn. I did not start out as a menopause expert. I’m now turning 52. But I didn’t start out in my 20s knowing anything about menopause. 

But more and more women came to me in perimenopause, in menopause. And I was like; I’d better learn this because I’m horrified that I’m not taking care of my people the way they need to be taken care of.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. 

Esther Blum: So, nose to the grindstone. Years of study. And having lots of doctor mentors to teach me was instrumental. It was so amazing. So that I could help people.

  • Get ahead of menopause [25:20]

Liz Wolfe: Yeah! So it sounds like over the course of your career, starting in your 20s, it’s the people that have come to you who needed help are the; the responsiveness to their needs has kind of defined your path and where you are now is in this; what did you say earlier? Prepare. I don’t know if you said prepare for menopause. Something like that.

Esther Blum: Get ahead of menopause. Get ahead of it.

Liz Wolfe: Get ahead of menopause. Ok. I love that. And I want to talk about that. Because all of a sudden, I’m no longer in the 28-34 age bracket. I’m in the next up age bracket. And next year I’m going to be in the next level age bracket. And when I was reviewing some of your manuscript, I was like; oh my god! You’re talking about 40 to 60. I’m this close to being 40. So I need to know what I don’t know. I want to be able to prepare and be ready for all of that. So where do I go from here? 

Esther Blum: So you are already doing some really gorgeous things. Like, lifting weights and doing strength training. I saw you and your mom planking. 

Liz Wolfe: Yes! 

Esther Blum: That was so inspiring and awesome! So yes. Strength training, number one. Muscle is really the organ of longevity. It is it’s own endocrine organ, actually, which is new research.

Liz Wolfe: Oh, wow. I did not know that.

Esther Blum: Yeah, that’s kind of hot off the press. And the largest mortality rate for people over the age of 65 is from fractures and falls. And most of us lose a lot of muscle mass. We lose muscle mass with the decline in estrogen and progesterone and/or testosterone. 

So, building muscle now is so great for going into menopause. Because you will inevitably gain less weight, if any weight, because you will be far more insulin sensitive. The more muscle you have, the more mitochondria you have, the greater your insulin sensitivity. 

There was a great study done with two control groups who had type 2 diabetes. Group 1 took metformin and didn’t workout. And group 2 lifted weights and did not take metformin. And actually the second group, group 2 that just lifted weights, had better glucose control than the metformin alone. 

Liz Wolfe: That is so huge! 

Esther Blum: Isn’t that cool?

Liz Wolfe: Yes. Because metformin is kind of a darling right now. You hear about it all the time. And it’s so phenomenal to hear that something that we know is good for us; working out, strength training, can have even better effects than the drug. Because sometimes we think of drugs as these things that will enable our bodies to do something that it won’t do otherwise on it’s own. So the fact that we can do that through something that simple that has a spectrum of other benefits is just really cool to hear. 

Esther Blum: It’s awesome. And you know, you can’t out-drug or out supplement your lifestyle choices. You always have to start with lifestyle. I mean, mother nature is much smarter than that. So strength training is beautiful. Building muscle. Keeping your muscles very metabolically active is really important for aging. Plus you just look much better. Your clothes fit better. 

If anyone here is listening thinking; I’m not lifting heavy weights. I’m not going to bulk up. I’m going to tell you; you don’t have the calorie intake or the testosterone to actually bulk up. When you see bulky body builders who are women, often they are on testosterone. It’s physiologically very challenging for women to look that way. But there are body builders who do, and do it naturally. But it takes years and years and years. And they’re eating high calories and 6 meals a day. There’s a very specific science to it that most of us are just running around, day to day, caring for family. Working. Caring for aging parents. You know? We’re not in that class. 

So, strength training. Number two; optimizing your protein intake. Because, if you’re doing all this gorgeous strength training but you’re not eating optimal protein; again, you’re not giving your body the tools it needs to build muscle.

So aim for; I’ll keep the math simple and say, if you can aim for 4 to 6 ounces of protein, you know, three to four times a day, you are going to; actually that will be a really nice amount to get in. You can certain go higher than that. But at least the threshold should be no lower than 100 grams of protein a day. 

I laugh at some of my clients; I’m like. Congratulations you have the protein intake of a dialysis patient. 

Liz Wolfe: Oh my god! {laughs} 

Esther Blum: And they’re like; is that good? Is that bad? I don’t know. I’m like; no it’s not good. Get your protein up! You know? 

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Yeah. 

Esther Blum: I have clients that eat up to 170 grams of protein in a day, and I have clients that are struggling to get 120 a day. So as long as you’re consistent, that’s very helpful. OK? 

Sleep and stress are also really, really important. Because stress is driven. Your hormones are driven from the top down. Meaning, what goes on in your brain is going to affect your ovarian production of hormones. How many times have you been super stressed and skipped a period? Because it takes extreme stress or chronic stress, it tanks your progesterone. Because your body is saying; I can in no way ovulate right now. Because I cannot carry a baby under these circumstances. Right? 

And yes. Women get pregnant in war times and all these things. But they must have had a real robust progesterone to begin with. 

Liz Wolfe: I mean; we’re adaptive. But do we want to have to adapt? Not in those circumstances.

Esther Blum: Not in those circumstances. So meditation. Again; it’s free. Breathing is free. It costs nothing. It’s something we all have time for 10 minutes before bed, as we’re falling asleep. That is a perfect time to meditate. You can listen to apps. I listen to the insight timer app. I’m obsessed with this guy, David Ji. He is like; oh my god, his voice is awesome. 

But, meditation, walking outside, getting time in nature. Unplugging from the phone. That blue light is really not so conducive to relaxation and melatonin production.

Liz Wolfe: That parts kind of hard. {laughs} That’s a tough one; maybe I can do three out of four? 

Esther Blum: There you go. Well start there. When you go to sleep, put your phone at least 10 feet away from your head. You don’t need military grade radiation. And there is research.

My son is 15, and he was like; show me the studies that show that cell phone use is bad. And I was like; click, click, click, click. There’s a lot of research that shows it thickens the adrenal cortex and really causes you to be in more of a hyper stressed state. So, try to unplug. 

Liz Wolfe: I’ve said it before; the hippies are always right. You know? 

Esther Blum: {laughing} 

Liz Wolfe: It’s always the fringe people that are talking about this stuff and then it turns out they’re right. {laughs} 

Esther Blum: I know. And I was totally raised by hippies, and I am one myself. 

Liz Wolfe: I love it. Would you also add; I mean, I think this will resonate with you. But just laughter? Humor. Enjoyment. All of that. I feel like so many of us are missing that. And I’m so guilty. And then my 2-year-old does something ridiculous, and I laugh. And I’m like; oh my gosh. My entire system just let go. You know? 

Esther Blum: Mm-hmm. Have you seen Ted Lasso? 

Liz Wolfe: Yes! He’s from; Jason Sudeikis is from my city. He went to the high school; I went to Shawnee Mission East and he went to Shawnee Mission West. And so did Paul Rudd. So; claim to fame. You know. So good.

Esther Blum: Claim to fame; yes. Bill Laurence, who also did Scrubs. Those, I just have to watch. I don’t know people watch murder mysteries and these really upsetting documentaries. I’m like;

Liz Wolfe: I get so stressed.

Esther Blum: No. And I try to read books by all the comedians, like Mindy Kaling. Oh my god, her book was so funny. Amy Schumer. You know? Amy Poehler. I just read Molly Shannon’s book which was not; some parts were funny but it was actually heartbreakingly sad, but beautiful.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. She has a sad story, doesn’t she? 

Esther Blum: She does. She does. I won’t spoil it for anyone. But yes, on the whole. Yes, laughter is really, really, really important. I mean, that’s got to be part of every day.

Liz Wolfe: Yes. You’ve got to bring; I don’t know, some delight. I’m so delighted by Ted Lasso. It’s just so delightful. And still Parks and Rec; I’ll just think of the Parks and Rec theme song and it just makes me so happy. It’s so light and buoyant, I just love it. 

Esther Blum: It is. Chris Pratt in that was like perfection. Oh, and oh my gosh. Ron Swanson’s character. Oh my gosh. {laughs} 

Liz Wolfe: Yes! One of the; I talked about this, actually, with Diana Rodgers when we did a podcast together. Because she’s friends with Nick Offerman.

Esther Blum: She is? Of course, because they’re meat lovers. Hello! 

Liz Wolfe: Yes! And he narrated Sacred Cow, which was all during the pandemic. So it was all done remotely. And I had completely forgotten about that. And I was just thinking; oh my gosh. How lucky is she, number one. But also that he; that character is one of the best characters ever drawn out for television. And him, Ted Lasso, and there are a couple of others. Oh my gosh. Just delightful.

Esther Blum: So fully realized. Yeah, I mean Will and Grace. Please; Nick’s wife, Megan, is fantastic.

Liz Wolfe: Yes. That’s so great. 

Esther Blum: Yes. 

  • Walking the walk [34:51]

Liz Wolfe: So, on that note, then. Personally; how do you incorporate that stuff? Because one thing that I find is difficult is I know what to tell people that will make them maybe a little lighter. Not weight wise. But lighter emotionally. Or the things that they can do to maybe make small shifts in their lifestyle; whether to workout more, or to get to that point, whatever it is.

But I have trouble walking the walk sometimes. Because it’s just like a constant; you know, sh*t show over here. So I need to work on that. And I would love to hear from you on how you kind of walk the walk. Or don’t.

Esther Blum: Oh, yeah. Well Joan Rivers, who I got to meet, actually, was one of my favorite comedic influences. So I watch a lot of comedy. I watch all the old, un-PC movies. My husband, too. Like; we always, every summer Caddyshack is on. And Ferris Bueller’s Day Off. Airplane, which has gotten; every time I watch it I’m like; this is even more misogynistic than the last time I watched it! But yet, it’s still so funny.

So it’s really, yeah. I didn’t grow up with hysterically fun parents. One of my brothers; also hysterically funny. but I made sure to marry a man who makes me laugh every fricking day. I mean, one of our earliest dates, he teases me because I was like; do you know any good jokes? And he was like, who is this lady? 

But we just; it’s just in me. I really try to see the humor in everything. Our son is like hysterically funny. He tells me; hopefully this isn’t too cursory for your show. You can edit it out. 

Liz Wolfe: {laughs} 

Esther Blum: But he tells me his pronouns are dick and balls. {laughing} 

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} 

Esther Blum: Like, we just; we see the humor in everything. And it’s funny. It backfired on me recently. I was away with some girlfriends. And I do a lot of recall, right? So someone, she told me a story where one of her family members was like; you’re being condescending. So she said something to me and I was like; you’re being condescending! And she thought I was being very serious and got pissed. And I was like; dude, I’m just teasing. I was like; I was totally talking about your sister-in-law! And she was like; oh, ok. And she defused. 

But, not; this is the other thing we tell our son. Because he is the class clown. We’re like; the first rule in comedy is you’ve got to read the room. You have to know who your audience is. And not everyone has a sense of humor. So I’ve learned over the years; because what I think is really funny is sometimes very offensive.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah, me too. 

Esther Blum: That same friend told me I was too bawdy for her taste.

Liz Wolfe: Bawdy! 

Esther Blum: Oh yeah. 

Liz Wolfe: What a phenomenal vocab word! 

Esther Blum: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s what my husband says about me all the time. He calls me bawdy and ribald are his two words.

Liz Wolfe: Oh, that’s great. 

Esther Blum: I really have no doubt in my mind, Liz, that I am mentally 14, 15. Just laughing at silly things; that’s what she said.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Esther Blum: You know; just silly humor.

Liz Wolfe: I feel like I’m a very subversive 80-year-old woman.

Esther Blum: {laughing} 

Liz Wolfe: Like, no filter. That’s what I identify with. To my core.

Esther Blum: So you say; you’re Joan Rivers then. 

Liz Wolfe: Oh my god. Well, it would be an honor to be compared to Joan Rivers. 

Esther Blum: Oh my god.

Liz Wolfe: I don’t even know how to explain it. I’m all about the older; I mean, it’s an entirely different brand of comedy. But I also love the Andy Griffith Show. Because I love tawdry, ironic, subversive, sarcastic stuff. Because not even just because it’s funny, but because it’s challenging. It actually is challenging intellectually in a way that not all comedy is. 

But I also love straight up Barney Fife, physical, clean comedy. Because there’s such; it’s a talent to be able to make people laugh while staying in that kind of family friendly arena. And I love that too.

Esther Blum: Yes! Or even; I mean, the Zach Galifianakis, Between Two Ferns. 

Liz Wolfe: Oh my god! 

Esther Blum: How he never; he never breaks. And I’m just crying laughing. {laughs} 

Liz Wolfe: Did you watch any of his show, Baskets, I think it was called? 

Esther Blum: I did not. I did not. 

Liz Wolfe: Ok. You have to; I forgot the other comedian that was on that show. Eddie something. And he just passed away. But he played Zach Galifianakis’ mom on the show.

Esther Blum: {laughs} 

Liz Wolfe: And it was this phenomenal gender-bending mind-bending but serious but hilarious. You’ll have to watch an episode or two and let me know what you think. Because I thought it was just the most interesting and funny show I’ve ever seen. I don’t know if it’s going on anymore. But he just; oh my gosh. He gets me every time.

Esther Blum: Yeah. He’s good. So yeah, I think to be funny, sometimes you have to learn it if it’s not around you. Like Curb Your Enthusiasm; Seinfeld. I mean, please. It just; the jokes. The quotes are so good all the time.

Liz Wolfe: They are so good. 

Esther Blum: They’re still so, so, so good. So I think that’s how you teach yourself humor. And really just learning to see the levity when it is a sh*t show with your kids. When someone is dragging their poopy diaper all over the floor. And someone has just puked all over. {laughs} 

Liz Wolfe: Yes.

Esther Blum: And you’re like; oh this is my hot date night with my husband. And you’re just covered it in. You know? 

Liz Wolfe: Yes.

Esther Blum: Because it is. Those are really trying; I call those the janitorial years. 

Liz Wolfe: That’s what I’m in right now. It’s just; the wrong kind of bodily fluids right now. 

Esther Blum: It is. And there’s snot. And just all; the snot gets me more than blood. I can deal with bones and blood, but snot really kills me. 

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. And just needing; I have a compulsive need to just dig anything out. Pick and dig anything at all times.

Esther Blum: {laughing} 

Liz Wolfe: And it just does not go over well. But that’s my stage of life right now. So it’s fine. It’s fine, everything is fine. 

Esther Blum: But then what happens is; as your kids get older. Right? Once they learn how to wipe their butts and get themselves dressed and can pour themselves a bowl of whatever in the morning, then it gets real. 

Liz Wolfe: Then you hit menopause? 

Esther Blum: Then you hit menopause. Yes. And then the teenage years are fascinating. It’s a whole different; it takes up so much more mental energy. 

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Esther Blum: Than the physical energy. And one of my friends here. She goes; you know, it’s going to be a really good idea to get a dog when your son is a teenager. And it was really some of the best advice we got. We got the dog when he was 12, and thank god. Because then they just kind of go in their room and close the door. And you see them again emerge sometimes, but you’re like; oh thank god I have a dog to love me. 

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Somebody still loves you. {laughs} 

Esther Blum: They still love you. But it’s just different. And you have to really; again, I find sense of humor really deflects and defuses otherwise what would be anger. Sarcasm really works. And then during covid I just let the F-bombs fly. And I said to him at one point; I’m probably not the best example for you at this point. And he’s like; you’re actually way more relatable because now; and then when I really do drop F-bombs. He’s like; oh, mom’s really pissed at me now. 

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Esther Blum: So he gets it. I use them judiciously. But then we can also say it like joking around and creating a really safe space for him where like; this is the circle of trust. In our house you get to say what you want. Out of the house; zip, zip. Think before you speak.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. So at what age do you think kids realize; can actually grasp that and go outside into the world and not repeat those words? 

Esther Blum: No. I mean, those we really didn’t start cursing until he was older. But the frontal cortex doesn’t close anywhere from mid to late 20s. Later usually for boys than girls. So what you don’t teach them, the world will. 

Liz Wolfe: Oh boy. 

Esther Blum: So let them go out and make mistakes. We get calls from his school every year. It’s ok. It wouldn’t be a school year without it. You know. And the language right now; it’s a real hard time, if you were a hippie or are a hippie and a child of the; well, you’re not a child of the 70s like me. But, you know, we try to just raise them like a child of the 70s and be pretty chill and relaxed and not everyone likes that. And I’m ok with that too. 

Liz Wolfe: Well, that’s good.

Esther Blum: Yeah. 

  • Bioidentical hormones [43:26]

Liz Wolfe: That’s what matters. Ok, so now let’s pivot. because I want to make sure; we’ve got like 15 minutes left.

Esther Blum: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: I want to make sure we talk about one thing that I’m dying to learn more about, and you’re going to be my point person on this. Bioidentical hormones. 

Esther Blum: Yeah. 

Liz Wolfe: I don’t even know where to start with this. Can you give me a good starting point? 

Esther Blum: Yes. Of when to start? What they do? How they work? The whole shebang? 

Liz Wolfe: Let’s say; at around what point in life do you start thinking about them. And then what’s that first step into learning about them? Obviously, See You Later, Ovulator. 

Esther Blum: Obviously, See You Later, Ovulator. Duh.

Liz Wolfe: Obviously. 

Esther Blum: Yes. So, a great time to start thinking about them is when you’re in the phase; and I would say mid-40s. But some women hit perimenopause in their 50s. Some women hit it in their late 20s. Then there’s women who have had surgical menopause. Right? With a hysterectomy for various reasons.

So you want to think about how you’re feeling in your monthly cycle. Right? We all, many of us, it’s common. That doesn’t mean it’s normal. But it’s very common for a lot of women to get PMS. Right? And to have that real crushing fatigue, and especially with a heavy period. 

Typically, that happens a couple of days before your period. I started noticing around the age of 45 like; wow. I’m now starting to feel this. It used to be like 7 days out. Then it was 9 days out. Then it was 11 days out. Then I was like; wow. The whole second half of my cycle, I’m struggling to sleep. I’m exhausted. I’m bloaty. I’m tired. You know; you see how your body’s resilience to your monthly cycle takes place. And a lot of women get what are called the period flu. Where they just feel so crummy before their cycles.

That is a great time to start testing. And again, most doctors will say; I’m not even going to remotely test you now. Your estrogen levels are fluctuating. especially in true perimenopause and menopause, your estrogen levels can fluctuate as much as 30% on any given day. So talk about; I mean, nature’s freak show right there.

Liz Wolfe: On any given day!?

Esther Blum: Yeah.

Liz Wolfe: Wow. 

Esther Blum: Mm-hmm. And what happens is, you know, as your progesterone drops, you can become relatively more estrogen dominant. So that doesn’t mean that you are, it just means that relative to your progesterone levels, you are. And then if you start noticing you’re getting heavy surges. Or you’re having gushing days. Where you are changing your tampons or putting in multiple tampons and bleeding through, bleeding through, like every hour to two hours. You’re passing clots. That’s like; ok ladies. It’s here. perimenopause is here.

Some of you may notice lighter cycles as your estrogen falls. But for a lot of women, the estrogen surges are really real, with low progesterone. So, that’s a great time to start getting tested. I love the DUTCH test. It’s a dried urine test for comprehensive hormones. It’s a test you can do at home. It’s a urine test. You take 5 samples between 5 p.m. and roughly 8 a.m. the next day. 

And it tells me your production of hormones. It tells me how you’re detoxing your hormones. Because they do have to move through you, especially if you’re going to be putting more in, you want to make sure you’re pooping them out every day. And that your liver and gut are moving them. And it can also tell me about your dopamine, and serotonin metabolites. Are you deficient in vitamins. Are you low in melatonin. And what your cortisol curve looks like.

So that’s a DUTCH complete. So that tells me that; ok, you can start some topical progesterone. And it doesn’t have to be oral right away. Or it could be oral, depending on where you are in your cycle.

So here’s the most important part of this conversation; is the type that you use matters. I always say; and this is going to sound. I thought about making this into a meme. But it really reads horribly elitist. And I’m not joking here. But I wanted to say; over the counter hormones are off the rack. And bioidenticals are couture.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} 

Esther Blum: But I don’t know; that sounds a bit elitist. 

Liz Wolfe: Nah.

Esther Blum: Because not everyone works with a functional doc. Alright, if you say ok I’ll do it.

Liz Wolfe: You’re good. I talk about working with a trainer all the time, and I just think by saying that I’m just completely unrelatable. {laughs} 

Esther Blum: No. But it’s good messaging. It’s important messaging. So, what happens is a lot of doctors want to prescribe birth control pills to women going through perimenopause and menopause. Because it will level out, or temporarily level out and control your symptoms. Because it suppresses hormones. But the problem is, it suppresses progesterone so you cannot ovulate and get pregnant. And that IUD similar, too.

So when you’re suppressing progesterone in a woman who already has declining progesterone, that’s not terrifically helpful, number one. Number two, a lot of women develop mental health changes during perimenopause and menopause because progesterone is kind of that chill out, nice soft kitty cat. Real relaxing hormone. Estrogen is more the fire, the tiger out of the cage. Like; alright, let’s go work out! But progesterone is really chilling. 

So, when you lose both those hormones, or they decline, a lot of women develop anxiety and depression. So putting a woman on birth control pills, which continuously suppresses progesterone, is not helpful. 

Putting her on synthetic progestin, which is a mini pill is also not helpful because it doesn’t hit up the dopamine receptors that you need to hit up in the brain to experience relief from irritability, meno rage, anxiety. 

Liz Wolfe: Wow. 

Esther Blum: So you really do benefit from; there are two types of bioidentical progesterone you can do. One you can get filled at a pharmacy; it’s called prometrium. The only downside of prometrium is that it’s packed in peanut oil. So if you have a peanut allergy, do not do. And that it does have to pass through your gut and your liver to make GABA in your brain.

So my number one drug of choice is a progesterone troche, which is a dissolvable tablet. It goes under your tongue. And it goes right through the blood-brain barrier. And boom; nighty-night. And it really; that is what enables me to have a 15-year-old son still in my house.

Liz Wolfe: {laughing} 

Esther Blum: Is that progesterone. {laughs} 

Liz Wolfe: Nighty-night.

Esther Blum: I haven’t thrown him out yet. Nighty-night.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Well, I was on progesterone when I was pregnant. And it was amazing. So I’m all about progesterone. But thinking about it in this context; it’s the next. It’s the future of progesterone for me at some point. So it’s really interesting.

Esther Blum: Yes. So if you’re still cycling every month, you can use progesterone cyclically. You don’t need it all month long. You only need it the second half of your cycle, when it really begins to fall. And then you go off it, and you get a withdrawal bleed, just the way you would a pill. And hopefully you’re also just having a normal period because you’re ovulating. But either way, it mimics your natural period cycle. 

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. So it’s so interesting to me. Do you feel like there has been any shift with OB/GYNs or anybody as far as prescribing birth control for these types of things? Is this just something that you’re talking about and trying to move a whole industry? Are we going to see this more? Because I live in Kansas. I don’t live in New York or California where they’ve got all the good progressive doctors and dieticians. I live in a place where I’m just hoping I find somebody that’s heard that not everybody can tolerate gluten, you know? 

Esther Blum: Right. Exactly. So, I mean that’s the goal. Is that every woman can walk into her doctor’s office with this book and say; look. I don’t want to go on the pill. I’ve seen the research. I’ve seen the research studies. And to question it; my doctor, too, when I was at the height of my insomnia my GYN said; you know, why don’t you take the mini pill. And I went home and did the research and one of the side effects was insomnia. So, no. I wasn’t going to take synthetic hormones anyway. I just know my body reacts poorly. But yeah. 

I think the way that we’re going to change this. It’s not going to be overnight. But we’re fighting for our daughters and the younger women in our lives. The younger generations. And so I think when we all become our own hormonal activists, and we all start challenging. And all of a sudden the doctors are going to start going to conferences and start talking and say; you know, all my patients want this stupid bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. And they said it actually works for them.

Then what’s going to happen is those doctors who are in their perimenopausal years are going to say; you know, maybe I should try this on me. And oh; dang, I feel a lot better now. You know what, why don’t I start putting my own patients on it. I mean, I think that’s how it happens. 

Liz Wolfe: Yeah.

Esther Blum: Is a slow but steady way. We have to change it ourselves. 

Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm. So is there any; I don’t want to get conspiratorial here. But my impression…

Esther Blum: Let’s do it.

Liz Wolfe: Let’s do it! So my impression was that bioidentical hormones are not patentable, and therefore not all that lucrative for pharmaceutical companies, so we see less of them, so doctors are educated less on those treatments. Is that a thing? 

Esther Blum: 1000% correct. And there are far less studies done on bioidentical hormones. Although I found some really good ones. But yeah, that’s absolutely it. There’s money in Big Pharma, for sure. And it’s far more lucrative to prescribe birth control pills. It’s very interesting what’s happening in California, along those lines. In California, transgender kids can get hormones prescribed without parental consent. They can get hormones prescribed to them by a practitioner. I don’t know if it’s a school nurse. I don’t know if it’s a psychiatrist. But they get access to hormones. 

And that’s not to discredit anyone transgender. I mean; goodness. Thank god you’re absolutely knowing that about yourself and getting support. But there is a piece of me that looks at that and says; think of how many years you can make money when you put someone on hormones at the age of 10 or 11 and have that continue their entire life. 

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is. I’m so ill informed on all of that because I’m so up my own ass about everything going on in my life {laughing}. But you have to hold two things; two disparate ideas at the same time. Where it’s like; access to that type of healthcare is really important for a subset of people. But the reality of what those hormones can do; especially below a certain age. Especially before puberty, for example. That’s a reality that we have to consider. 

These medications are being prescribed and there is not a whole lot of planning or knowledge around how to support these people down the line when they may be suffering the negative effects of some of these medications that they have been put on for so, so long. It’s like; nobody cares what happens to you 10, 15, 20 years down the road. We have no plan for that. We have no safety net. We really are like just kind of poking around with a stick hoping that we don’t trip over something trying to do the right thing. But we have no idea what that’s going to look like down the line.

Esther Blum: That’s correct. And my guess is; I’m curious to see if it will cause early menopause. If ovaries atrophy. If you give a girl testosterone and suppress ovulation; does she atrophy and go into early menopause? That should be a research study, in my opinion.

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. And I do …

Esther Blum: We’ll find out.

Liz Wolfe: We’ll find out. I do have a friend who had a family member in that exact situation. And was really, really, really hard towards the end. Because there were a lot of effects, aftereffects from those medications and those hormones. So we just; you know. Gathering data. But you just ate for data gathering to happen at the expense of people down the line.

Again, I’m very ill informed around it. I’m just in my little bubble here. I wish that I could understand and speak in an informed way on everything. But I’ve accepted that I can’t. I literally can’t pick the correct brand of diapers at this point.

Esther Blum: {laughing} 

Liz Wolfe: I just did a reel. I just recorded a reel about 2-year-olds and how they will literally look you dead in the eye and tell you that they are crapping their pants right now. How savage that is.

Esther Blum: {laughing} 

Liz Wolfe: Just, I mean. She will take the diaper off. She’s over it. The diaper is off. It doesn’t matter what’s in it. It doesn’t matter where she’s at. The diaper is off. So we’ve got to figure that out. 

Esther Blum: She is like my soul mate.

Liz Wolfe: I think she is.

Esther Blum: I mean she is; yeah. Yeah. 

Liz Wolfe: I don’t even know what to say about her. And I waited a long time between kid number one and kid number two. So I’m getting my penance for that right now. {laughs} 

Esther Blum: {laughing} 

Liz Wolfe: And I am hoping. I’m hoping to have a few more years before perimenopause so I can really make sure the whole system is ready to be shut down. That I don’t want another one. But I still want to prepare. I’m still going to; you know. I’m still going to take See You Later Ovulator and make sure that I’m all ready for this. Because it could happen at any time.

Esther Blum: That’s right. 

Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Ok. Well we’re rounding about an hour. And I appreciate you coming on with me so, so much. And bearing with me through all of this nonsense. {laughs} 

Esther Blum: Can I give your listeners a little gift? A little something-something? 

Liz Wolfe: Please! Yes! 

Esther Blum: Get them started? Ok. So for all of you listening. I created for you my Happy Hormone Cocktail Program. Because you got to have a cocktail in there. So you can download it for free. You just enter your email. Go to EstherBlum.com/Cocktail. And you’re also going to get on the priority notification list for when See You Later Ovulator is on the shelves. 

Liz Wolfe: Perfect! Alright. You’re the best. I hope we can do this again sometime. 

Esther Blum: Oh my gosh. Please! I just want to hang with you. I think I need to come to Kansas. 

Liz Wolfe: I think you should. Or maybe I’ll make a trip out there. And maybe I’ll remember my microphone this time and we can record something in person. that could be fun. 

Esther Blum: That sounds fun. I don’t live too far from Diana. She’s like two, 2.5 hours. So we could totally hang out.

Liz Wolfe: Oh my gosh! I would love that.

Esther Blum: That would be fun.

Liz Wolfe: Two powerhouses, and then me. {laughs} Funny sometimes.

Esther Blum: You slay me. 

Liz Wolfe: Alright. Thank you so much.

Esther Blum: Thank you, Liz.

Liz Wolfe: That’s it for episode 44. Again, a big thank you to Arrowhead Mills for making this episode possible. Remember, Esther’s book, See You Later, Ovulator, is coming out on October 6th, 2022. So order or preorder it right away. You can visit her at her website, EstherBlum.com. Or on Instagram @GorgeousEsther. 

Please sign up for my emails so you don’t miss a thing. I send out a free trainer designed workout and other goodies in every email. So www.RealFoodLiz.com/email is where to do that. Remember, you can ask me anything by sending me a DM @RealFoodLiz on Instagram. But the best way to ask is to go to www.RealFoodLiz.com/AskLiz and fill out the form. 

I appreciate you! I’ll see you next week. 

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