Topics:
1. What’s new for you from Diane & Liz [3:17]
2. This week in the Paleosphere: The FDA on KIND bars [18:18]
3. Catching up with Liz [31:33]
4. Nutrition and supplementing during pregnancy [33:59]
5. Maternity leave and going back to work [39:18]
6. Natural baby care products [46:30]
7. Shout Out: Nom Nom Paleo’s new podcast [53:02]
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Liz Wolfe: Hey everyone! Welcome to episode 188. Do you remember me? It’s me, Liz? Are you there podcast audience?
Diane Sanfilippo: {Laughs}
Liz Wolfe: It’s me, Liz. So I’m here. I don’t know for how long in this particular episode, because I may have to…
Diane Sanfilippo: Tend to the wee one.
Liz Wolfe: Oh my god, I can’t believe I have a baby! That’s so weird!
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s really weird.
Liz Wolfe: It’s so weird. But anyway. Welcome to episode 188. I thought I’d jump in and say hello so people didn’t forget about me.
Diane Sanfilippo: Hello.
Liz Wolfe: Hello. How are you?
Diane Sanfilippo: Welcome to the podcast, Liz Wolfe.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: So strange.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think we should probably take a minute to hear from our sponsors.
Diane Sanfilippo: We have a brand new sponsor who I’m super excited about. Joining us this month is Tin Star Foods Ghee. As any of you who have been following me on social media know, I’m a huge fan of the product. I don’t generally talk a lot about products that I’m not a big fan of, so I wanted to invite Tin Star to come on and be a sponsor. I’m really excited to introduce those of you who haven’t heard of it yet to this ghee.
For those of you who aren’t sure what ghee is, it’s clarified butter, so if you’re sensitive to dairy proteins, it’s a really good option. For people who are highly, highly allergic, it maybe for you, it maybe not. I know that Tin Star Ghee is certified as casein free as well as lactose free, but there are some folks who will always be sensitive. So if you’re a little bit borderline and you feel like you can handle a tiny bit, which that’s where I am at, I would definitely recommend it. I definitely don’t do well with butter, and the Tin Star Ghee is fantastic for me. Ghee has been clarified, so the dairy proteins are gone, and I have no problems with it whatsoever. It tastes fantastic, and it’s a very healthy cooking fat. It’s my number one go-to choice for cooking.
So if you’re looking for an alternative to something like coconut oil or other animal fats that have different types of flavors, ghee is a fantastic choice. I just used it this morning to scramble my eggs, and it’s one that I highly recommend. The flavor and texture of Tin Star Foods ghee is fantastic. I absolutely love Hima, who is the owner of the company. She’s is just a really hard working gal getting her company off the ground, and I love supporting her. So I’m excited to have them join us as a sponsor, so welcome Tin Star Foods Ghee.
You can save 15% off any ghee in your order from http://www.primalfoodpantry.com/, that’s the website. So anything that you add to the cart that is a ghee product, she’ll get 15% off for you there. The code is BALANCEDBITES, so check them out. http://www.primalfoodpantry.com/
1. What’s new for you from Diane & Liz [3:17]
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright. How about some updates?
Liz Wolfe: We’re both super quiet. Like, you’re also worried about waking my baby.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I can be louder. I can always be louder.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing} I can do that. Yeah, updates, let’s do updates. {laughs} Should I go first?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah!
Liz Wolfe: Um, I had a baby.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: And she’s awesome. It’s a little girl. You know I’m not giving a ton of details, because really, it’s been a little while. I’ve been on leave for a little while. But it’s just this, I don’t want to say fog because that sounds bad, but it’s just this whirlwind of, how has this much time passed, and also how has so little time passed. I feel like I may not quite be thinking 100% clearly just yet {laughs} with the broken sleep and everything. So right now, just kind of going skinny on the details, but we have a beautiful little girl, and she’s wonderful and extremely confusing and healthy and we’re just super happy and tired. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s been roughly how long? Just because I don’t even remember. I know you took a little time off before she was born.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, I did. I think I’ve been gone from the podcast for at least 6 weeks.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Maybe a little bit more.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: So how’s it been going.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s good. We’ve had a lot of awesome guests. We moved podcast hosts. I’m not sure if you knew {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: I had no idea. You’ve done an admirable job of keeping me completely…
Diane Sanfilippo: Out of the loop?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, in a good way. Like, have your time with the family type of way. So I had no idea. But I did hear, I think you told me there was a commercial for some kind of crazy processed food? Like in the middle of our podcast?
Diane Sanfilippo: No it was a weird diet supplement.
Liz Wolfe: Oh lord.
Diane Sanfilippo: And a bunch of our listeners thought it was a joke. I was like, oh that’s not a joke, but it’s also not a real sponsor. So it kind of was our last leg there. It was totally not approved by us, and we have sponsors that we love.
Liz Wolfe: The straw that broke the camel’s back.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, exactly.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. So updates from me, I guess basically, schedule wise. I’m trying to think when this episode is going to air, I think it’s airing on April 23rd, so if people are really excited and quick to listen and they’re coming to PaleoFx, I have a quick update about that. I did have a talk that was scheduled on Sunday the 26th, and that’s my business talk, but I got moved to Saturday the 25th at 11 a.m. I’m not sure if it’s going to be on one of the stages that will have part of the free live stream, but I know part of the conference will be live streamed for free. I think the cooking stage and one other stage. There’s like 4 or 6 stages; there are a lot of different stages. So there’s a lot going on all day at the whole event.
Anyway, if you’re not joining us this year, maybe you’ll check it out next year. It’s always a fun time. So I think that’s pretty much it. I’ve got a bunch of sessions going on. I will definitely do my best to bring whatever it is that I have for the talk that I’m doing to either the blog or to the Build a Badass Business podcast, because the talk I’m doing is actually not about nutrition. It’s about building a business and kind of what that takes. Because I know a ton of people who attend that the whole weekend really are entrepreneurs and they’re in this industry and teaching about nutrition and health, so they come to that. I think that will be really fun.
I’ll definitely find a way to share that with our listeners; I’ll let you guys all know where that is, and that’s kind of it.
Liz Wolfe: So, I will not be at PaleoFx.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I can’t say I’m too bummed about it because I mean, hello, I get to hang out with my kid. Which is just like, how did that happen, are you serious?
Diane Sanfilippo: I know. It’s always so funny to me. It’s like any new listeners would tune in and be like, what are they talking about? But yeah, it’s crazy to me.
Liz Wolfe: It’s so weird.
Diane Sanfilippo: It seems like just yesterday the two of us were flying and driving around the country and teaching seminars and having a car that brokedown and someone that gave us a loaf of bread.
Liz Wolfe: I know.
Diane Sanfilippo: And tried to help us, and it was all crazy and weird. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Which that was either the first or second time; it was one of several times the car broke down, because we had the car break down, and we had to stay in a hotel didn’t we? In some random place?
Diane Sanfilippo: That was the same time. I think we were coming back from Rochester.
Liz Wolfe: Oh it was?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Ok. Well then it broke down multiple times in that trip.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: We had to stay at some weird place outside Scranton.
Diane Sanfilippo: Scranton, yep.
Liz Wolfe: Which is fine, I always like being around Scranton because it reminds me of the office.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: So I won’t be at PaleoFx this year, but you might actually see me around because I am. Ok, so first of all, Kristen Roberts, the paleo attorney.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: She is awesome, and she’s doing a talk on just getting your legal ducks in a row if you’re starting a business based around anything that folks do that are going to PaleoFx. I let her use a situation that I had this year as a case study. So if you’re at that talk, you’ll probably see my face flash up on the screen there. Basically about protecting your intellectual property.
One of the biggest things I told Kristen was, what I learned through this whole process, which was basically somebody out there decided they wanted to threaten me with legal action for using the word Skintervention, and I basically folded because the name is not important to me, it’s the content. So just to deal with that, but if I had protected myself a lot earlier and been proactive about it, then I wouldn’t have had to deal with that situation.
Now, the thing is, I didn’t think that my work would reach that many people when I first put together the skin care guide, which is now called the Purely Primal Skin Care Guide. I had no idea that it would reach that many people, and that somebody would find me on the internet and get upset about me using a certain term. So you have to understand, when you’re protecting something, you’re protecting the work. You’re not protecting how many people that work is going to reach. So even if you don’t think that your stuff matters in the grand scheme, or you’re not reaching enough people, you need to do what you need to do to protect the work itself, not how far it’s actually reaching. Because you never know.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. And I think for a lot of people who are just starting out, trade marking is one of those things where you don’t think it’s necessary, or you feel like, like you said, unless it’s going to go far it’s not necessary, and I think one of the biggest things that gets in the way is the cost of it.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: Obviously just for one use type, which people may not know a ton about this, but when you trademark something, you can’t just trademark that and you own it for every possible way that somebody could use the name, but it’s hundreds of dollars just for each type of use that you’re going to have, plus the attorney fees.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: So it really adds up, and I think people need to take it seriously if the name is important to them, for sure. I’m going through the same thing now. I’ve had trademarks for a lot of the names of what I’ve been doing for a while, but just expanding what that covers, it is really important. So yeah, it’s a good topic for sure.
Liz Wolfe: If I could have done anything differently, it would have been to take, to really just squirrel away a good percentage of the first money that I was making and put that toward a trademark.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Like really having that in the front of my mind in the beginning rather than years later being, oh shoot. That’s a bummer.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think a lot of times, also, people don’t think that the work that they do is going to earn that kind of money
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Or make that kind of a splash, or rub anybody else the wrong way, or what have you. So yeah, I think that’s kind of a good call. Well it’s an important note to everybody out there who’s blogging or creating an e-book or whatever you’re doing, because the words that you use to name something, you can’t really claim any ownership to them unless you do something like a trademark or, there’s a few ways you can protect your work with copyright, but in terms of a name or a brand, it’s definitely a lot harder.
Liz Wolfe: And on top of that, even if you’re in the right, it costs buku money just to fight that fight, if you haven’t already done the work ahead of time.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm. Right.
Liz Wolfe: We totally sound like delicious dish, by the way, because we’re both so subdued right now.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} And people have tuned in to listen about nutrition, and we started talking about totally other things, but that’s cool.
Liz Wolfe: I know. I just need to get my sea legs back. Ok, another place folks might see me at PaleoFx. Folks probably remember Diane and I talking about fermented cod liver oil versus extra virgin cod liver oil, and all that stuff, in previous podcasts. During the last couple weeks and months, I’ve actually spent quite a bit of time just kind of looking into the extra virgin cod liver oil and the Rosita rat fish liver oil, and all of this stuff, if you want more information, if you have no clue what we’re talking about right now, you can learn more about cod liver oil versus fish oil at Diane’s website. You have a post, right, about that?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. A big looong post.
Liz Wolfe: Ok. A very long post. My book, Eat the Yolks, has a pretty good run down on one versus the other, and so does the Purely Primal Skin Care Guide. So we talk about this all the time. Basically, up until recently, the fermented cod liver oil was really the only player in the game. And one of the reasons we like it so much is because it’s traditionally processed. I saw amazing results from it. And then fairly recently, we saw the Rosita rat fish liver oil, the extra virgin cod liver oil from Rosita, kind of jump onto the scene and people were really wanting to compare the two, saying one is bad and the other is good, and stuff like that.
We’ve addressed that a couple of times, and really the whole deal only made me want to learn more.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: Because I like both. I really do. I love the fermented cod liver oil, I know a ton of people have seen great results from it. But like we’ve talked about a million times; even strawberries don’t work for everybody.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: You can’t eat walnuts. I mean, good things don’t necessarily work for everyone.
Diane Sanfilippo: Right.
Liz Wolfe: So, I’ve spent a ton of time looking into the Rosita stuff. Which, in the United States, you’re going to want to go to Corganic; I don’t even know if I spelled that right. I told you earlier that the only thing left in my brain is the spelling space.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: And apparently not at all. But you can order them from there. And I’ve spent a lot of time talking to the guy behind Corganic, and he’s great, and just learning more about it. So I basically offered him; not offered him. I basically told him, hey if you want my endorsement for your products for PaleoFx, please go ahead and let people know that I really love your product. Because I think it is, I think it’s a great product. And if people are not able to stomach the fermented stuff; if they’re just looking for something that tastes a little less pungent, that’s a little less odiferous, then go look for the Corganic booth with the extra virgin cod liver oil at PaleoFx and learn a little bit more. I do think it’s really great stuff.
Especially for pregnant folk, it may be difficult for people that are pregnant to stomach the fermented cod liver oil. So I think this stuff is a really good choice. You’ll see, I think they made a little cartoon out of my image, or my face holding a bottle of extra virgin cod liver oil, so you might see me there too.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah I did see that Rosita cod liver oil was going to be, I think they have a booth there, as you mentioned. I was excited to learn more about it, so cool. Good to hear.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. He’s a real good guy, and he’s very accessible. I know he’s fairly new to the paleo community, but a lot of his mission is centered around autism and food intolerance and stuff like that. He had really shown a ton of interest in just learning what the paleo community was all about. I know he’s got some experience with the Body Ecology diet, and all that stuff.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: So I think he’s circled the community quite a bit.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: But he’s really wanting to serve the paleo community, and that’s cool. So definitely stop by and say hi.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think it’s important for people to also keep an open mind, because as you said, not everything works for everyone.
Liz Wolfe: Right.
Diane Sanfilippo: And we know that there are people who are sensitive to anything fermented, whether it’s histamines or sometimes just anything in the fermented cod liver oil, some people just don’t tolerate it well. So it’s nice to have other options. I feel like we’ve almost been waiting for another option.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, absolutely.
Diane Sanfilippo: Because standard fish oil is kind of, at least I know from our perspective, the way most fish oils are made, it’s like comparing vegetable oil processing to an olive oil cold pressing.
Liz Wolfe: Totally.
Diane Sanfilippo: You know, an extra virgin cod liver oil that I’m going to guess is cold pressed, or there’s a process that’s not anywhere near the highly industrialized processing that’s done to most mainstream fish oils. Even some of the “better” brands that I’ve seen out there; there’s maybe two or three brands that have come across our desks where, I think even to the point we’ve been asked to promote them. I’ve just not been able to get enough information to say, yes I can promote this, when I ask them about how they process things. They just don’t answer the questions. So that just makes it, I don’t know that they’re not good, but we don’t know that they are either.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: So for us, sort of, you’re guilty until proven innocent, in a sense. We can’t say, yes, it’s a positive product to buy unless we know how it’s made.
Liz Wolfe: And on that note, one of the things I do like about this extra virgin cod liver oil when compared to the standard stuff that you’d find at Whole Foods is the way it’s harvested and how it’s made. So be sure to stop by their booth and ask them about that. It’s very sustainably harvested, pressed almost immediately, so it’s pretty cool stuff. This guy is pretty passionate about it. Again, he’s not the one doing it, but he’s got a very close relationship with the folks from Rosita who are, I don’t even know; Norwegian? I don’t know my geography so good these days.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: If I homeschool this kid, she is screwed.
Diane Sanfilippo: You’ll just have to read the chapter the night before.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah! {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m pretty sure that’s what most teachers do. I’m kidding; I love teachers.
Liz Wolfe: Cut that out, Scott. {laughs}
2. This week in the Paleosphere: The FDA on KIND bars [18:18]
Diane Sanfilippo: For anyone who doesn’t know, my entire family is teachers, all my friends are teachers. It was totally a joke. Awesome. Alright, well, let’s see. Do we have a this week in the paleosphere? I think we do. I think you had an article you wanted to talk about.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. I’ve been hearing, and people have been asking me about the FDA cracking down.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: On KIND bars. So I think a lot of folks know what KIND bars are; they carry them, or used to carry them, at Starbucks. They’re kind of like a gluten free; they’re pretty much a treat. But they’re generally probably a decent choice. There’s nothing wrong with them. KIND bars are perfectly healthy. I wouldn’t base my whole diet around them. Anyway, the point is, FDA is cracking down on KIND bars using the word or the claim “healthy” on their products. Based on the fact that their products have over a certain threshold of saturated fat, something like 2.5 grams, or something like that, the FDA doesn’t allow you to use the claim “healthy” on your products if you have more than 2.5 grams of saturated fat. So they’re cracking down on KIND bars.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Here’s what I love about this. Waste of freaking time. It almost makes me as angry as all of this nonsense surrounding raw milk and raw dairy, and Listeria as if that’s this huge risk if you’re consuming well produced raw dairy when things like cantaloupe, and spinach, and industrially processed food; we keep hearing about, oh shoot, a Listeria outbreak tracked down to spinach in 87,000 different grocery stores across the United States. It’s just this huge waste of time. It kind of reminds of child protective services taking away children that are allowed to play at the park a block away by themselves.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: It’s just so silly. So 2.5 grams of saturated fat. First of all, as we know from my work, Diane’s work, Eat the Yolks and Practical Paleo, saturated fat is not something to be scared of. And 2.5 grams is probably about what I ate in a bite of my breakfast. {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} Totally.
Liz Wolfe: So, it’s just so silly. The way the government is stepping in and doing these things, it absolutely blows my mind. I don’t know if you have any familiarity with KIND bars.
Diane Sanfilippo: I actually didn’t read the article, I had seen it circulating, and heard a little bit about it. Because I can’t eat almonds, it kind of rules out most of those bars for me anyway. But I think the bigger question around whether or not they’re “healthy” is really more, just how much sugar is in them, how many sweeteners, and some of them using canola oil and things like that. If you’re going to split hairs about what’s healthy and what’s not, it’s definitely not going to be an issue of too much saturated fat from coconut. It’s going to be, how many types of sweetener in there.
The thing I like to teach people about when it comes to sweetener, food manufacturers are going to use multiple types of sweeteners for a few different reasons, one of them is going to be how they act and the type of texture they provide. So in baked goods or anything that has a shelf life, even in something like ice cream, different types of sugars and sweeteners are used because they provide a different texture. And I can respect that from a food science point of view.
But there’s also a really big sort of, I think veil, that goes over this where we’ve learned to a degree, and I think anybody who is reading labels and is looking for “healthy” products, we’ve learned that the first ingredient in the list is the one that there is the most of by weight or volume. If you were to measure in grams how much of each ingredient there is, it’s put in that order. So I’m looking at a grain bar that they have that was labeled with “healthy” on the front of it; whole grain blend, and then it’s got a bunch of different greens, and then the next ingredient is tapioca syrup, then dried cane syrup, then honey.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: And then it goes on to say coconut, canola oil, then brown rice syrup. So now I’ve counted one, two, three, four types of sweetener. Now, if you were to just use one type of sweetener, the gram weight of that sweetener would probably outweigh the grain blend. But if they were to do that and just use one type of sweetener, or even two, it might bump that one type up above the grain blend. This is something I really don’t hear a lot of people talk about, but I’ve been thinking this is a huge way that they’re hiding how much sweetener is in these products for a long time. Since some of the very first talks I’ve given on sugar and carbs, and I used to bash Kasha cereal a lot, especially because I used to eat it, and they had, I think, 3 kinds of sweetener in it. I was like, can you imagine if they just use one how many grams of that sweetener would be in here, and would it put the honey, or whatever it is, at the top of the list? Now, I don’t have a problem with honey per se, but if it’s the first ingredient in your bar or your cereal, that could be an issue. You didn’t think you were grabbing a nut bar to eat mostly honey. You know what I mean? Or mostly sweetener, or mostly sugar.
I think that’s one thing for me. I think it confuses people, and it misleads people. This one bar I’m looking at; 23 grams of carbs, which is 23 grams of sugar, but they’re only listing 6 grams of sugar, and it’s 4 different types of sweeteners? I just, there’s nowhere else…
Liz Wolfe: Are you looking at KIND bars?
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m looking at one of their grain bars.
Liz Wolfe: Ok.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s not just a nut bar, but it’s one that says “healthy” on the front. So I think that may be one of the ones, because if they’re calling it “healthy”. It’s not one of the just nut bars, it’s one that has grains in it too.
Liz Wolfe: Gotcha.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah. I think it’s kind of across the bar. The fruit and nut; let’s see what some of the ingredients are in here. Chicory root fiber, non-GMO glucose, which glucose can often be derived from wheat. We’ve got honey, non-GMO glucose, apple juice, chicory root fiber; that’s at least 4 kinds of sweetener in this one, too. So, I think 3-4 types of sweetener in each one probably. That for me; you know, like you said, it’s not that it’s a terrible thing to eat, and if you’re out and about and you need something and you don’t want to eat pastry, and this is a choice for you. But I think it is a ton of sugar for people to be eating, quite honestly.
Liz Wolfe: I have a question for you.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yes.
Liz Wolfe: Is this by far the most boring episode we’ve ever done? {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: I think people are interested in KIND bars. I get a lot of questions about them.
Liz Wolfe: I’m interested in KIND bars. I actually; so, I’m breast feeding. Not to bring the conversation back to me.
Diane Sanfilippo: Right now?
Liz Wolfe: No, not right now.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: You’d hear it if it was right now. {laughs} She’s kind of a little psycho when she breast feeds. But it’s cute. So, during the night, I’ll get really hungry. I just have to fuel myself during the night, as well, and I’ve been bringing bars upstairs. And I’ve been doing the Two Moms in the Raw bars, which are really, most of these so called healthy bars, including KIND bars, they’ll have brown rice puffs, and all kinds of weird stuff.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: But if you want to spend 4 bucks on a bar, get one of these Two Mom’s in the Raw bars. I’ve been eating those during the night. As you can tell, I’m not getting much sleep, as my brain is clearly slow.
Diane Sanfilippo: I actually wrote an endorsement for their new cookbook.
Liz Wolfe: Nice!
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, somebody reached out to me, and I was like, yeah, sure! I looked through it and it was actually beautiful and tons of great, interesting, healthy recipes. I’m pretty sure it’s all gluten free.
Liz Wolfe: I think they do some, what do they do, some type of grains, or gluten free grains. I’m not sure.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think so. Yeah, I think so.
Liz Wolfe: But it’s really good, really thoughtfully made stuff. That’s exciting. I’m excited that you’re involved with that. That’s cool.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} People just email me; I’m like, alright. No, I always look through whenever somebody asks me to write a quote for a book, I always have to see the entire book before I’m willing to do that.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: So yeah. Alright, well KIND bars. We don’t think they’re the worst thing to eat, but we definitely thing read the label, read the ingredients, see if it lines up with what you intended to eat. It’s not just nuts and dried fruit and a little bit of sweetener. It might have a little more sweetener than you thought. And if that’s ok for you, that’s ok for you. There are some people who can handle a little more carb, a little more sugar, and they’ve an active lifestyle, and they feel fine eating it. So it really varies for everyone.
Liz Wolfe: So here’s a question for you, Diane.
Diane Sanfilippo: No questions.
Liz Wolfe: No, I’m not answering any questions.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} No more questions. Yes.
Liz Wolfe: So, I’ve noticed as a connoisseur of various bars that would be appropriate for middle of the night breast feeding snacks. I’ve noticed that most of these; it’s really hard to find a truly clean, prepackaged bar. And yes, I know I could make some, but I’m not going to.
Diane Sanfilippo: I wasn’t going to ask you to {laughs}.
Liz Wolfe: Because I have a tiny person hanging from my breast. And I’ve noticed that even the really clean ones, and they’re usually vegan oriented, quite honestly, I think the vegans are doing a little bit of a better job with the bar creation. But they often have agave. And I feel like, in the paleo community, we’re so just, we kind of know what’s up with agave, we don’t really partake of agave.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mmm.
Liz Wolfe: But what do you think about it being in some of these bars? I’ve just kind of been like, meh, whatever. I’m not basing 99% of my diet around agave, I can let that go. What do you think of that.
Diane Sanfilippo: Um, I tend to lean towards, ok, if you’re just kind of grabbing something, and it happens to have agave, and you’re allergic to a million other things and that’s what it’s going to be, I don’t think it’s the biggest deal. I think it’s an issue when people are eating tons of it, and they think it’s a healthy choice so then they eat more of it.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: And back in the day when it kind of first jumped on the scene, it was considered a low glycemic sweetener because it doesn’t hit blood sugar first, it goes to the liver first, because it’s high fructose. So, people were using a lot of it, and I think that can be a problem, and I think it was a problem for diabetics. Specifically because it didn’t elevate blood sugar right away, but if you’re diabetic we definitely don’t need to be impairing your liver function further, because your liver function is what’s actually helping to regulate your blood sugar.
So, all that being said, I don’t know that I would want to buy a bar that has it to kind of stockpile in my house. I don’t think I would have a problem eating it; I’m sure I’ve eaten agave in something, some kind of raw thing here or there, probably more so when I was able to eat almonds years and years ago. Because they tend to use agave in things with nuts and that kind of raw preparation. But what about the cricket protein bars, have you tried those?
Liz Wolfe: Oh yes. I love them. I actually have a video that I made ages ago.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs} I can’t eat those either because of the nuts, but.
Liz Wolfe: You can’t? Well, and also a lot of people that are allergic, that have like seafood, shellfish allergies can’t do it.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I don’t have that allergy.
Liz Wolfe: But I think they’re great, and I have a video that’s going to go up eventually, just reviewing them and singing they’re praises. I think they’re fantastic, you just need a little variety in my opinion.
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m pretty much off most nuts and seeds except, interestingly, the most non-paleo nut, the peanut, which is a legume not a nut.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: That’s the only one that doesn’t seem to make me break out.
Liz Wolfe: Interesting.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think even seeds make me break out these days.
Liz Wolfe: How do you do with legumes in general?
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t really eat many other than like green beans.
Liz Wolfe: Hummus? Lentils?
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t eat lentils.
Liz Wolfe: Because legumes, I don’t even know.
Diane Sanfilippo: Lentils just aren’t in my house and not in places that I go out to eat. Hummus, I probably have a few times a year. I actually had some yesterday, I went to a Greek restaurant. I don’t think I do poorly with them, I’m not sure. I’ll let you know in a couple of days if I break out. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} I’ll be so interested to get that text message.
Diane Sanfilippo: Liz {laughs}.
Liz Wolfe: I’ll just be sitting there.
Diane Sanfilippo: Just waiting.
Liz Wolfe: Nursing, waiting for your text message.
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3. Catching up with Liz [31:33]
Diane Sanfilippo: So, we’re just going to talk a little bit about whatever you wanted to update folks on {singing} Since you’ve been gone! {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: It has gone so fast. And I have all the feelings about being a mom. Like I say that, and I still don’t. I’m like waiting for her real parents to come pick her up.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I don’t know if other people have felt that way.
Diane Sanfilippo: So not to give exact numbers or anything, but she’s somewhere between 3 and 6 weeks old.
Liz Wolfe: She’s somewhere between 1 week and 3 years old.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing}
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, she’s between 1 and 6 weeks old {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: Somewhere, she was born. I actually don’t even remember. I’d have to look at the day that you told us that she was born, but I don’t even remember. So she’s very new.
Liz Wolfe: It was such a whirlwind. And I’m not trying to be all, oh, it sounds like I’m being self important in some way about holding this close to the vest, but it’s just hard to decide how much of your kid’s information you’re going to put on the internet forever and ever when you can’t get any of the information back. So we’re just being really old fashioned and conservative about it, at least until our heads clear and we don’t have this new parent fog you know, kind of consuming us.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, and I’m sure there’s a lot of apprehension and not being sure. For our listeners, we’re definitely not the types to tell you exactly what to do just because we spent 1 minute doing it.
Liz Wolfe: {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s like, no really.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: You want to have much more experience or a little more thought around it, and you can share your experience and say what you’ve done, but at the same time I think because we know that our listeners value what we say in a way that they take a lot of it as direct advise, I think that’s smart.
Liz Wolfe: Right. Well thank you. And I could talk, you know, fertility, foods, and all of that type of stuff, which is obviously what we’ll be doing in Baby Making and Beyond. I know you’ve had my Baby Making and Beyond tips with Meg the Midwife.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: Going up on the podcasts the last couple of weeks. That’s what we’ll do there. And I’ve got a whole network of other experts that are informing what we’re putting into that program versus just talking on a podcast about what I’ve done since the baby has gotten here. Which is a whole nother ball game. Meg will be taking care of a lot of that.
4. Nutrition and supplementing during pregnancy [33:59]
Diane Sanfilippo: Do you want to mention a little bit about some of the stuff? I know it’s information you’ve been talking about for years on the podcast, and I know a lot of it really held true for the way you went into things in terms of nutrition and just stuff that you kind of paid attention to eating more of, and if there was anything that you avoided or anything like that.
Liz Wolfe: One of the most important things definitely, leading up and even before we got pregnant was to, how do I put this. This is going to get a little bit complicated, and we’ll talk about this in Baby Making and Beyond, but really, supplementing can be very valuable if you know what you’re supplementing for. And when I’m talking about supplementing, I’m not talking cod liver oil or making sure you get your omega-3s through sardines every day or that type of stuff. I’m talking about, for example, supplementing with methylated folate.
That can be really valuable; you have to know what your genetic mutations are, and I know this sounds totally way out there, but if you know that you have this breakdown in methylation, you can put together a supplement protocol that’s going to increase your chances of having a healthy pregnancy and a healthy baby before you even get pregnant. You start that, you see how your body responds to it, and you continue it, of course with the blessing of your practitioner, into your pregnancy.
So I think a lot of times folks, when they are thinking about getting pregnant or they are pregnant, it’s just like, alright, well just take a prenatal and cover your bases with that. I really think there are better ways to really go about this in a targeted manner so you’re not wasting any energy, any money, or any nutrients from supplements that’s not getting where it needs to go. Does that make sense?
Diane Sanfilippo: It does.
Liz Wolfe: I think it’s kind of the next frontier. Somebody that talks about this a lot is actually Heather Mommypotamus, if you’ve heard of her.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yes. I met her in Nashville.
Liz Wolfe: http://www.mommypotamus.com/. She’s super sweet. And she talks a lot about supplementing based on your mutations. I think she’s going to have some really good information coming out about that pretty soon, so keep an eye out for that.
Diane Sanfilippo: Based on MTHFR mutations.
Liz Wolfe: That or, there’s a couple of other’s that I’m not super familiar with; Meg is really familiar with this topic. I’ll let her speak to that in the program, if it’s relevant to folks, they can get that information. But Heather has a ton of information on it. I am not dealing with any single nucleotide polymorphisms.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: That I’m aware of, so I was fine. But that’s definitely something that was important for me to figure out before we got pregnant. Especially for MTHFR, which is something that people are talking about a lot more now.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: It’s basically a genetic defect in the methylation cycle involving folate. That’s a problem that can actually cause miscarriage. I don’t know if should say cause, but I think a lot of folks that are dealing with those SNPs will have multiple miscarriages. And they don’t realize it, and it’s really heartbreaking.
I’m following somebody on Facebook, and man I want to say something.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: This is a young couple who have had multiple miscarriages, and multiple failed IVF, and she has found out that she has MTHFR, but all that she was told by her practitioner was, that’s going to make it hard to carry a pregnancy.
Diane Sanfilippo: Right.
Liz Wolfe: She’s had no education on supplementation or anything like that. And it’s one of those things where it’s like; ah, do you say something, do you not say something? And whatever. But that’s been pretty important. But I really did the basic stuff, food wise. People know that I love my sardines, I like seafood, I like oysters for their zinc content, chicken livers for their folate rich source, also iron and B vitamins. Things like that. I but I really think the most important thing leading up to getting pregnant and during my pregnancy was really managing my circadian rhythms.
Diane Sanfilippo: Mm-hmm.
Liz Wolfe: Managing sleep and making sure that I was resting appropriately at the right times. Which completely, completely changed my hormonal state. I had an incredibly harmonious pregnancy, and I also had, although the story actually gets a little bit crazy and I’ll share my birth story when I’m ready with, definitely the Baby Making and Beyond audience. I’m not sure how comfortable I am talking about it just out in the internet public swimming pool. We’ll see.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I also had a really, really harmonious labor. So I don’t think that was an accident. I don’t think that I was just lucky. I don’t think everybody is that lucky. I think there are a lot of healthy people that deal with nausea and hormonal imbalances and stuff like that during their pregnancy, but lucky me, whatever I was doing worked and I didn’t really deal with any of that stuff. So I don’t think that’s impossible; I think other people can have the same experience.
5. Maternity leave and going back to work [39:18]
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, and I think we have these lifestyles too where we work for ourselves, and I think a huge percentage of time it causes a ton of stress for us because it’s hard to turn off work mode.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: When, you know, we can always be working. But I think the biggest blessing of it as well is the freedom to make those decisions, to say, ok now’s the time that I’m really going to focus on this, and I don’t answer to anyone else.
Liz Wolfe: Mm-hmm.
Diane Sanfilippo: Obviously we’re working together on things, you’re working with other people, but in this community and in this environment of what we teach and what we are doing, obviously when you say, ok I need to not do the podcast for a while, I’m like ok! You know.
Liz Wolfe: Very true, yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s kind of the beautiful thing around designing your life how you want to live it, and I think we’ve talked about this a bunch of times, but I think anybody who is feeling like they’re just not able to create that environment given a 9-5, given maybe not even 9-5, maybe it’s longer hours, maybe it’s different hours. If you have the inclination to do something on your own, that is the huge upside, you know. As much as it’s very demanding, and we have to work really hard when we’re working.
I was just hanging out with a bunch of my friends last night here locally, and I think everyone in the group; I’m the only entrepreneur kind of working just for myself, and I think hearing about how much vacation time people get and all that. Nobody was complaining, it wasn’t that, it was just more, even hearing you get X number of days to take off, or even X amount of time for maternity leave. I was like, I felt so stifled by it when I just wanted to go places and take vacation time. I remember I would be like, ok, I’m still going to take that week off, you can just not pay me. I was like, I have to go.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs}
Diane Sanfilippo: I’m not coming in, so figure it out. But you know, I think that is the thing, we don’t talk about that a lot as much as we talk about how hard it is to do this work and keep turning and putting out content and creating things and making sure that we’re earning a living. I think that’s the best thing ever, to say, ok, I’m just going to pull back on all of this and take care of my body and make sure that it’s the right environment for myself and my baby. That’s not to say that anyone who doesn’t do that is wrong, or bad, or anything.
Liz Wolfe: No.
Diane Sanfilippo: But I think it’s a huge benefit that maybe is often not considered when someone things about how much work it is or how risky it might be to go off and do something on your own, because this benefit, to be able to create your days and your time for yourself, I just think that’s huge, so I’m glad you had the time.
Liz Wolfe: That kind of makes me think about; well, the time is not over, my friend.
Diane Sanfilippo: Well, I mean even leading up to it.
Liz Wolfe: This is perpetual. No, totally. That kind of makes me think about what you said about maternity leave in the United States. Meg the Midwife is a midwife in Canada, so she has a little bit of a different view surrounding these things, but in Canada, the mandated maternity leave, and paternity leave, are like months, I think. And in the United States, I think women get 6 weeks generally, and men don’t get any. My husband got 10 days, and that was supposed to be something amazing, which I tell you my friend, it is not. It’s not enough.
And I think for people, whether they’re working a “normal” job, or you’re in a situation like mine which, like you said, it can be a double edged sword, because while I get to design a lot of the ways I’m going about my life, I also have to say, well I’m taking the risk of my income taking a dive, just stepping away from it. I don’t know; we’re just not set up for moms, and I’m seeing that more and more now having become one. 6 weeks is not enough.
Diane Sanfilippo: No way. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Well, I mean it is for some people. Some people are like, I’ve got to get back to work. I love my kid, but to be a good mom I have to have this other work life. I totally get that; that’s not me. But it’s just not set up that we can make those decisions based on what’s best for ourselves and our family. It’s just completely dictated by this arbitrary corporate policy that expects women to be, families to be ready to go back to a 9-5. Which is like all of your kids’ waking hours. You know?
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: When my husband is home, it’s like a couple of hours before the baby goes to sleep. Yeah, she’s up during the night, but that’s not play time, that’s eating time and going back to sleep time.
Diane Sanfilippo: Right.
Liz Wolfe: So I definitely have a lot of feelings about how we’re setting mothers up for success or struggle based on these entrenched ideas. And I don’t know how I feel about the government mandating longer maternity leave; I just wish that employers were more family friendly. Rant over.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah, I don’t know. I mean {laughs}.
Liz Wolfe: I don’t know.
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t, I can’t jive with any of the corporate environment for time off for anything, you know.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
Diane Sanfilippo: I was like, what do you mean, 2 weeks’ vacation? 2 weeks out of 52? {laughs} I was like, no I can’t do that anymore.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah! It’s nothing.
Diane Sanfilippo: I don’t think I ever did. I think I was always like, well, I’m just going to take this time. But yeah.
Liz Wolfe: You’re an entrepreneur to the core. A lot of people don’t know how I ended up in this position.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: Part of it was, I was in the corporate world, I married the military. And I had really limited options to what I could do that was fulfilling for me. So I was, in a way, just kind of shoved in this direction and have made the best of it. But I’m not an entrepreneur by nature, the way you are, Diane. I totally see what you’re saying as far as your Build a Badass Business stuff. Anybody can do this, anybody can make a different choice, it’s just funny the different personality types.
Diane Sanfilippo: Yeah.
Liz Wolfe: I’m definitely not that person that was like, I’m going to make this work. It’s been hard for me. It’s been hard for me to navigate how to do all this stuff. It’s doable, and I’m very grateful I was able to do it, for sure. 6 weeks is not enough. {laughs} I’m not ready.
Diane Sanfilippo: No. I can’t even imagine. Yeah, that was the conversation we were having last night. I was like, how are you doing that? How are they going back? Because 2 out of the 6 girls, 6 of us in total, 2 of them were pregnant last night. I was like, stay on that side of the table. {laughs} I’m just kidding.
Liz Wolfe: Don’t worry, you can’t get it by contact.
Diane Sanfilippo: Ok, good.
Liz Wolfe: It’s just strange. I thought beforehand that 6 weeks was a long time, and it is not a long time.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, I could easily be like, I’m going to take 6 weeks off just to take 6 weeks off.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah.
6. Natural baby care products [46:30]
Diane Sanfilippo: So yeah, no. I think a minimum of 3 months seems like how much time somebody would need to just figure out when then they’re going to be ready after that. {laughs} Ok, so Liz. I think people want to know; have you found any cool either skincare or baby type products or cool new things since you’ve had the baby?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. I’ve actually been really frustrated by what’s available for more naturally inclined parents. I’ve tried to be pretty minimalist about things, but that obviously gets difficult when I think I need all the things all the time. One of my biggest frustrations has been that line between completely inconvenient and crunchy, and convenient but not completely toxic. So one of my biggest things was finding a nursing pillow that wasn’t made of flame retardants and foam and all kinds of junk. Because I just wanted to think that the places my baby spends the most time, I want them to be the most pure. And everybody loves the “My Breast Friend”, and yes, that’s what it’s called, My Breast Friend.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh my god. {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: I know, I know. So this is all kind of in that space when you’re like, right before the baby comes and then right after the baby comes, now at this point, I’m like, hey, hon, that couch cushion, toss it over here, I’m going to lean her against it while we nurse. But so many things are made with flame retardants, crazy chemicals. Especially crib mattresses and bassinet mattresses and nursing pillows. And that’s really where my focus was.
Diane Sanfilippo: Isn’t that how they have to do it? Isn’t that a legal issue?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, it is, and it’s really, really sad. Because we have absolutely no clue as to how those things and how much of those things it takes to really affect babies. I don’t want to get too controversial, but I really do think it’s incredibly important to at least try to find a pure crib mattress or basinet mattress or nursing pillow, and it can be really different.
What we did was we got a cotton and wool mattress from Holy Lamb Organics. It was not cheap, but if you think about your kid spending literally more than half the day, probably, all told on top of that mattress I think it’s probably totally worth it. I could have spent a hell of a lot less money on onesies; we’ll talk about onesies in a second, hold on.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: But these mattresses are made of wool, pure, they call it ecowool. It’s not processed with any crazy chemicals or anything like that. And wool is naturally flame retardant. So it’s exempt from these laws.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, that’s cool..
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, that dictate that you have to have a certain type of flame retardant in your mattresses. There’s not a whole lot you can do about car seats and strollers and stuff like that. You can get more sustainably ecofriendly type of stuff in strollers in things like that, if you even want to use a stroller. I’m all about just carrying the kid. It’s good for you, it’s good for them.
But there’s not a whole lot of nursing pillow type stuff available in nontoxic fabrics. I found an organic cotton nursing pillow from organiccaboose.com. It smelled kind of funny out of the bag. You can use your arm, you can use a pillow. You just do basically whatever works for you to feed the baby, but it’s those mattresses. If you can spend money on anything, I would say spend money on a really good quality mattress. Look at what they’ve got at Holy Lamb Organics.
We’ve got a little side car, because we are cosleeping, but for the most part we’re cosleeping with the baby right next to us in kind of a side car deal that’s right next to the bed, and I got a little mattress from them that’s also wool and organic cotton. So that’s what I would do; I would spend the money on the bedding.
We used my registry.com, which you can basically register for anything from any store anywhere so you don’t have to worry about it if they don’t have whatever you’re looking for. What’s that baby store; why am I asking you?
Diane Sanfilippo: I try and avoid all of them.
Liz Wolfe: The big baby store.
Diane Sanfilippo: There’s a few.
Liz Wolfe: Bye, bye baby? Which is the most sad.
Diane Sanfilippo: I see the sign, and I’m like, ok bye! I better go the other way {laughs}.
Liz Wolfe: Yeah. Me too, I think of it too, it just makes me sad. We spent, I spent; he didn’t. I spent so much money on baby clothes. Baby gowns, baby onesies, and all that stuff. And really all we have her in is a blueberry simplex cloth all in one diaper and wrapped in a blanket. All day. You just don’t need that much for a baby. The baby industry is just making a killing.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughs}
Liz Wolfe: It made a killing on me and I didn’t even get that much stuff. But if I may tell new moms that baby hasn’t come yet, get kimono onesies, stuff you don’t have to put over the newborns head. Because there is nothing that will make you question yourself as a parent more than trying to put a freaking onesie over your newborn’s head.
Diane Sanfilippo: {laughing} That’s crazy.
Liz Wolfe: It is the worst. The worst. So there you go.
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright.
Liz Wolfe: {laughs} That’s my new mom advice for the day.
Diane Sanfilippo: Pete’s Paleo is a friend of the Balanced Bites podcast. They’re bacon is insanely delicious, and sugar free, and their premade paleo meals make your life so much easier when everything is getting busy and getting real food on the table is still a top priority, as it should be. Pete’s paleo is now offering a 30-day gut healing kit containing bone broth, gelatin gummies, instant organic soup packs, and an E-cookbook. It’s the perfect complement to any anti-inflammatory diet. Get yours today at guthealingkit.com. Use code GRABACUPPABROTH to get $25 off; that’s an amazing deal. It’s GRABACUPPABROTH, C-U-P-P-A. And you can grab that code at any time at BalancedBites.com to just read and make sure you’re typing it in right. You can also use code BALANCEDBITES to get $5 off any of their regular meal plans. Check out PetesPaleo.com today. Pete’s Paleo; bringing fine dining to your cave.
Diane Sanfilippo: I think we’ve sufficiently yapped for this episode.
Liz Wolfe: Thank goodness. Sorry people; it’s not like riding a bike. It’s hard. {laughs}
7. Shout Out: Nom Nom Paleo’s new podcast [53:02]
Diane Sanfilippo: Podcasting is hard. Oh, you know what? I’m going to give a shout out.
Liz Wolfe: Ok.
Diane Sanfilippo: It’s a little late, so maybe we can either keep this as a late shout out, or it can get moved to the top. I don’t know. But really quickly, I want to give a shout out to our friend, Michelle Tam, of Nom Nom Paleo. She and her family recently launched a podcast.
Liz Wolfe: Yay! Really? Where have I been?
Diane Sanfilippo: I think she announced yesterday on Instagram, or I don’t know where else. But we’ve been doing this for 180-something episodes, so we’re over 3 years into doing a podcast, and we love our listeners, we want everyone to stay around, but we definitely want to share the love and make sure that you guys know what’s going on out there. That’s pretty much it. We try to keep it fresh. We’ve got some new ideas brewing. I think when we get close to around episode 200, so a couple of more months there, I’ve got some new ideas maybe to shake things up with the podcast. So we’ll see what happens.
Liz Wolfe: I’m scared.
Diane Sanfilippo: Don’t be scared. It’s all good.
Liz Wolfe: Am I fired? {laughing}
Diane Sanfilippo: Alright, so we’re going to wrap things up here. That’s it for this week. You can find Liz at https://realfoodliz.com/. Make sure and check out Baby Making and Beyond. I think she’s probably got a little button somewhere, right? A button somewhere?
Liz Wolfe: Yeah, BabyMakingandBeyond.com. Just go over there and sign up.
Diane Sanfilippo: Oh, there you go. BabyMakingandBeyond.com, so check that out. You can find me, Diane, at http://dianesanfilippo.com. Join our email lists for free goodies and updates you don’t find anywhere else on our websites or on the podcast. While you’re on the internet, leave us an iTunes review. We’ll see you next week.
